Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Feedback for Solar Panel Talk

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by rug_burn View Post
    There is an incredible influx of newbies here, so perhaps that is what contributes to it.
    Pardon?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by russ View Post
      Pardon?
      I think he means that some of us should be kinder with our responses to questions asked by the newbies since there are so many new ones getting on the forum.

      While I somewhat agree with that notion of being kind and open minded, I also get a little tired with some of the newbies attitude and preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do. Or that they can install a grid tie system without going through legal loopholes, or build an off grid battery system that will run their 10 ton AC unit or 5kw space heater for a few hundred dollars and a 100 watt panel.

      Sometimes being kind or soft spoken will not get people to think and learn.

      I will get off my soapbox now.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
        While I somewhat agree with that notion of being kind and open minded, I also get a little tired with some of the newbies attitude and preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do. Or that they can install a grid tie system without going through legal loopholes, or build an off grid battery system that will run their 10 ton AC unit or 5kw space heater for a few hundred dollars and a 100 watt panel. Sometimes being kind or soft spoken will not get people to think and learn.
        I find that's due to simple ignorance, rather than a desire to upset anyone. When someone who knows almost nothing about solar comes here, asks a question and immediately gets a "why don't you go kiss Al Gore's ass, you clueless greenie liberal!" they tend to learn even less.

        A few years back I wrote a FAQ that covered a lot of the early dumb questions/misconceptions about solar; I can just cut and paste now when I see them being asked over and over, and it takes about ten seconds. They were:

        -I just got a bunch of solar panels! How do I hook then up? I spent most of my money on the panels so the rest of the stuff can't break the bank.
        -I just want to feed a little power back to the grid. I saw this grid tie inverter on Ebay for $99 . . . .
        -I don't want to do grid tie, I just want to charge a small battery bank with solar, run off that, then use the grid only when they get low.
        -I get like ten hours of sun a day so I shouldn't need a big system.
        -I don't want to run everything, just air conditioning and my efficient refrigerator.
        -This system is real expensive if I get it installed. But I looked online and panels are really cheap, so I'll do it myself to save money.
        -I want to get my grid tied system to keep working when the grid goes down! Can't I fool the inverter somehow into thinking that the grid is still up?

        Those cover about 80% of the newbie questions I see on here.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
          I think he means that some of us should be kinder with our responses to questions asked by the newbies since there are so many new ones getting on the forum.

          While I somewhat agree with that notion of being kind and open minded, I also get a little tired with some of the newbies attitude and preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do. Or that they can install a grid tie system without going through legal loopholes, or build an off grid battery system that will run their 10 ton AC unit or 5kw space heater for a few hundred dollars and a 100 watt panel.

          Sometimes being kind or soft spoken will not get people to think and learn.

          I will get off my soapbox now.
          I'll mostly second that one and add that it seems some folks have their minds made up and have no intention of being confused or forced to think when confronted with truth or facts forged by true education and experience. Correcting ignorant or incorrect statements and illogical statements is not rude or bullying. Those who think so may benefit from some maturity training and/or getting a thicker skin, some education and maybe dialing back their ego a bit.
          I'll also get off the rant box now.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by billvon View Post
            I find that's due to simple ignorance, rather than a desire to upset anyone. When someone who knows almost nothing about solar comes here, asks a question and immediately gets a "why don't you go kiss Al Gore's ass, you clueless greenie liberal!" they tend to learn even less.

            A few years back I wrote a FAQ that covered a lot of the early dumb questions/misconceptions about solar; I can just cut and paste now when I see them being asked over and over, and it takes about ten seconds. They were:

            -I just got a bunch of solar panels! How do I hook then up? I spent most of my money on the panels so the rest of the stuff can't break the bank.
            -I just want to feed a little power back to the grid. I saw this grid tie inverter on Ebay for $99 . . . .
            -I don't want to do grid tie, I just want to charge a small battery bank with solar, run off that, then use the grid only when they get low.
            -I get like ten hours of sun a day so I shouldn't need a big system.
            -I don't want to run everything, just air conditioning and my efficient refrigerator.
            -This system is real expensive if I get it installed. But I looked online and panels are really cheap, so I'll do it myself to save money.
            -I want to get my grid tied system to keep working when the grid goes down! Can't I fool the inverter somehow into thinking that the grid is still up?

            Those cover about 80% of the newbie questions I see on here.
            Yep. Pretty much covers a very large portion of the repeat questions we see daily.

            You forgot the one about getting 2 dozen used batteries almost for free so what size charger do I need if I wire them in parallel?

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by billvon View Post
              and immediately gets a "why don't you go kiss Al Gore's ass, you clueless greenie liberal!" they tend to learn even less.
              What was the statement or question that prompted such a response? Usually some silly green statement. Both extremes have their stock of FUBAR points that they pop out whenever trying to look or sound bright.

              Bill you know this well -
              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                I think he means that some of us should be kinder with our responses to questions asked by the newbies since there are so many new ones getting on the forum.

                While I somewhat agree with that notion of being kind and open minded, I also get a little tired with some of the newbies attitude and preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do. Or that they can install a grid tie system without going through legal loopholes, or build an off grid battery system that will run their 10 ton AC unit or 5kw space heater for a few hundred dollars and a 100 watt panel.

                Sometimes being kind or soft spoken will not get people to think and learn.

                I will get off my soapbox now.
                Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                I'll mostly second that one and add that it seems some folks have their minds made up and have no intention of being confused or forced to think when confronted with truth or facts forged by true education and experience. Correcting ignorant or incorrect statements and illogical statements is not rude or bullying. Those who think so may benefit from some maturity training and/or getting a thicker skin, some education and maybe dialing back their ego a bit.
                I'll also get off the rant box now.
                Hahaha, MEN!... testosterone and receiving instructions/corrections don't blend well.

                My #1 pet-peeve here is when one of you very knowledgeable solar/electric gurus give a newbie FREE, honest, practical advice...
                and they reply with "you didn't have to be so condescending about it"...
                grrrrr! ... that just gets under my skin.
                [CENTER]SunLight @ Night[/CENTER]

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well, since the topic moved toward this, I might as well post my view.

                  Although I have been interested in, and have been following solar power since I was a mere teen, I did not get around to actually having a need to build a solar array until late last year. I am in my late 40's. This was the first of two arrays that I have installed. However, I became a member of this forum back in 2011, in hopes of learning as much as I could prior to ever getting to that point in my life. I'm sure I asked plenty of stupid questions when I started - and probably will do so in the future, as I learn more about Alternative Energy.

                  While I can see the seasoned guys tiring of newbie questions, isn't that one of the reasons you are on this site? Aren't you here, at least in part, because you wish to help those of us who still have a long way to go?

                  From the newbie point of view here, I can say this. Sometimes, I see rather - well, almost callous replies to new members. Most, I am sure, do not deserve it. I don't believe that most new members who post here, have the attitude mentioned. While some may have "preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do"- By SunEagle, it is possible to steer most of them back within the realm of reality without being so abrasive.

                  I have thick skin, something most must possess when posting on most online forums. But, some newbies may not. Some of the posts in reply to their initial post on the site, sometimes will be more than enough to drive them away from the site.

                  My skills and long term experience do not apply concerning Solar. I have been focused on Southeast Asia, regarding my experience. (Definitely, countries where solar is a positive thing, if the poor could only afford it.) I own a very active online forum focused on Southeast Asia, more specifically, the Philippines. I have over 23 years experience in the Philippines, Thailand, and Cambodia. Trust me, I have seen newbie questions covering topics I have seen a hundred times.

                  As another member here has done, I should have created canned responses long, long ago, about the topics I am an authority on. I am sure it would have saved me tons of time - so much that I probably shouldn't think about how much time it has actually cost me! I reckon I was just too lazy. I always end up writing a new reply every time, even today. But, after all the years online, I still reply, like others on my forum, to help the newbie out. I don't post harsh replies to them. I reply with the best information I can. If I don't wish to reply, or if I feel I cannot post without being condescending or caustic to them, I just move on to another thread.

                  My
                  Paul

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by livingincebu View Post
                    Although I have been interested in, and have been following solar power since I was a mere teen, I did not get around to actually having a need to build a solar array until late last year. I am in my late 40's. This was the first of two arrays that I have installed. However, I became a member of this forum back in 2011, in hopes of learning as much as I could prior to ever getting to that point in my life. I'm sure I asked plenty of stupid questions when I started - and probably will do so in the future, as I learn more about Alternative Energy.

                    While I can see the seasoned guys tiring of newbie questions, isn't that one of the reasons you are on this site? Aren't you here, at least in part, because you wish to help those of us who still have a long way to go?

                    From the newbie point of view here, I can say this. Sometimes, I see rather - well, almost callous replies to new members. Most, I am sure, do not deserve it. I don't believe that most new members who post here, have the attitude mentioned. While some may have "preconceived notions of what a solar pv system should do"- By SunEagle, it is possible to steer most of them back within the realm of reality without being so abrasive.

                    I have thick skin, something most must possess when posting on most online forums. But, some newbies may not. Some of the posts in reply to their initial post on the site, sometimes will be more than enough to drive them away from the site.

                    My skills and long term experience do not apply concerning Solar. I have been focused on Southeast Asia, regarding my experience. (Definitely, countries where solar is a positive thing, if the poor could only afford it.) I own a very active online forum focused on Southeast Asia, more specifically, the Philippines. I have over 23 years experience in the Philippines, Thailand, and Cambodia. Trust me, I have seen newbie questions covering topics I have seen a hundred times.

                    As another member here has done, I should have created canned responses long, long ago, about the topics I am an authority on. I am sure it would have saved me tons of time - so much that I probably shouldn't think about how much time it has actually cost me! I reckon I was just too lazy. I always end up writing a new reply every time, even today. But, after all the years online, I still reply, like others on my forum, to help the newbie out. I don't post harsh replies to them. I reply with the best information I can. If I don't wish to reply, or if I feel I cannot post without being condescending or caustic to them, I just move on to another thread.

                    My
                    Good input and well said.

                    I must be getting old. I shouldn't let off the wall questions get to me for I too was a newbie in a lot of areas and must have asked questions that got the "more learned" people upset.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Shockah View Post
                      Hahaha, MEN!... testosterone and receiving instructions/corrections don't blend well.

                      My #1 pet-peeve here is when one of you very knowledgeable solar/electric gurus give a newbie FREE, honest, practical advice.
                      and they reply with "you didn't have to be so condescending about it"...
                      grrrrr! ... that just gets under my skin.
                      I'm not bitching. I'm here by choice and my feet are not nailed to the floor. FWIW, I'm here because I think solar energy and sensible energy use can improve things some and I think I have something(s) to contribute in the way of opinions and experience that may counter some of the ignorance and resulting rip off results that follow that ignorance like dogs after a gut cart.

                      1.) I've found the sex of the offended party makes no difference. Lack of confidence and lack of open mindedness are androgynous. Besides, I try to be an equal opportunity offender.

                      2.) Like Strother Martin's character in Cool Hand Luke said : "Some men you just can't reach". I'd add some women to that as well.

                      3.) As for manners, I try not to be rude, but I stopped walking on eggs and stopped doing people's thinking for them as to what I think they may want to hear a long time ago.

                      4.) On manners, maturity and civility: I'd ask why it's OK for someone to expect to be spoon fed information in a rather superior, condescending manner that to me carries a sense of entitlement, and then take offense where none was intended, when the free answer they get takes more than 25 words or the length of their attention span to answer completely and thoroughly. I'd respectfully suggest to those folks be careful what you ask for.

                      6.) Consulting fees get billed at about $250/hr. or so these days. As for my opinions or my mental spoor, read from me what you wish as your needs dictate. Leave the rest. On some rare occasions you do get more than you pay for, like it or not.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                        I'm not bitching. I'm here by choice and my feet are not nailed to the floor. FWIW, I'm here because I think solar energy and sensible energy use can improve things some and I think I have something(s) to contribute in the way of opinions and experience that may counter some of the ignorance and resulting rip off results that follow that ignorance like dogs after a gut cart.

                        1.) I've found the sex of the offended party makes no difference. Lack of confidence and lack of open mindedness are androgynous. Besides, I try to be an equal opportunity offender.

                        2.) Like Strother Martin's character in Cool Hand Luke said : "Some men you just can't reach". I'd add some women to that as well.

                        3.) As for manners, I try not to be rude, but I stopped walking on eggs and stopped doing people's thinking for them as to what I think they may want to hear a long time ago.

                        4.) On manners, maturity and civility: I'd ask why it's OK for someone to expect to be spoon fed information in a rather superior, condescending manner that to me carries a sense of entitlement, and then take offense where none was intended, when the free answer they get takes more than 25 words or the length of their attention span to answer completely and thoroughly. I'd respectfully suggest to those folks be careful what you ask for.

                        6.) Consulting fees get billed at about $250/hr. or so these days. As for my opinions or my mental spoor, read from me what you wish as your needs dictate. Leave the rest. On some rare occasions you do get more than you pay for, like it or not.
                        100% agreed - J.P.M. is one of our strongest members! I followed the concept of voting with my feet for a life time. Led me all sorts of places and usually where I made money.

                        Free help is nice - if you have to take a bit of grief to get it most consider it worthwhile.

                        If one expects to get patted on the back for every loony idea that comes along many green sites specialize in the concept.
                        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          This site could use some professional vetting process. Take a look at HVAC-Talk for an example of a well run Trade based forum. On there, members can fill out an application to gain 'Professional Member' status. This, for one, opens up access to some Pro only forums - primarily used for industry discussion. More importantly, they have AOP (Ask Our Pros) forums of various topics. The rules dictate that only vetted professional members can respond to A.O.P. posts. Others who have not been vetted get moderated out, with a request that if they are in the business, or particularly knowledgeable on a related topic, that they apply for pro status.

                          Example new forums:
                          AOP PV Residential Grid Tie
                          AOP PV Residential Off-Grid
                          AOP PV Commercial
                          AOP Thermal
                          AOP PV Mobile

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            I am not a big fan of these types of forums. A LOT of times a non-professional has input which can be quite valuable to a question posed in these so called "professional" forums and yet cannot post it because of the "verified professionals only" rules. yes you could PM it to the individual (and I have on occasion) but what does that do for the next guy with the exact same question? nothing. And then of course you get two professionals who disagree on the best way to do something and even in those forums it can devolve into a 3rd grade argument lol

                            it is very true that there could be a bit more nicety towards new members sometimes. but sometimes when the same question gets asked for the 1,345,666th time because the noob doesn't do a search before asking ... they PERHAPs get what they ask for, a short, curt answer to their issues. I am far more tolerant and careful in my response to someone that says "hey I did a search but couldn't find yada yada" than I am of someone who asks a general question that is answered on the very page he makes his post on.

                            Originally posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
                            This site could use some professional vetting process. Take a look at HVAC-Talk for an example of a well run Trade based forum. On there, members can fill out an application to gain 'Professional Member' status. This, for one, opens up access to some Pro only forums - primarily used for industry discussion. More importantly, they have AOP (Ask Our Pros) forums of various topics. The rules dictate that only vetted professional members can respond to A.O.P. posts. Others who have not been vetted get moderated out, with a request that if they are in the business, or particularly knowledgeable on a related topic, that they apply for pro status.

                            Example new forums:
                            AOP PV Residential Grid Tie
                            AOP PV Residential Off-Grid
                            AOP PV Commercial
                            AOP Thermal
                            AOP PV Mobile

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Thanks people!

                              Long time lurker, first time commenter.

                              I recently had a solar carport installed. I learned a lot from your site before I started the design and bidding process. I was able to go into the project with a good baseline of knowledge, such that I was able to understand why my installer steered me away from some of my more baroque concepts.
                              Thank you for your hive mind product!

                              Regarding the comparison with HVAC-Talk: I learned a lot from that site as well. I found that I trusted some "pros" more than others. Some are fighting particular wars all the time (Goodman equipment is the devil, for example.) Most are genuinely engaged in trying to build up a useful coral reef of knowledge. HVAC is still a developing technology, but much less so than solar.

                              As a frontier technology, PV should still be open to the uncredentialed enthusiast. And it is not just technology. Solar also involves the politics around subsidies (including the invisible ones supporting coal, nuclear, and petro.) The audience will make its own judgement on who are good resources on this board. I think you have a great thing going here, keep on trucking!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by hiles8500 View Post
                                Long time lurker, first time commenter.

                                The audience will make its own judgement on who are good resources on this board. I think you have a great thing going here, keep on trucking!
                                Thanks and glad the guys helped you!
                                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X