Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

grid tie inverter in blackout

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
    .........This constant claim that a Bimodal requires a gen. Is counter productive and short sighted to the needs of the majority of home owners. I agree that having a Bimodal power your entire house the same without grid as with is absolutely crazy without generator. But if home owner is NOT looking for A/C or electric range, microwave etc use during outage and just wants a limited set like well pump and fridge and cell phone, it is a fit.
    Well pump and fridge can flatten a battery bank pretty quick if there is even 1 day of not full sun. Having a generator, even something like a honda eu2000 clone, is critical, if you want to keep the system up under adverse conditions. And with the power of a generator, comes responsibility to care for it too.

    If a homeowner is educated about the choice, and it's benefits or disadvantages, that's fine - give them the opportunity to make an educated decision. But to withhold that info, because of generator prejudice, is wrong.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
      which is simpler than a genny with ethanol fuel that has been sitting for 6 to 12 ( or 24) months.
      If a generator isn't started at least one time in two weeks the owner is a fool.

      If petrol is used as a fuel and the owner lets it sit and stagnate then again, the owner is a fool.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
        If a homeowner is educated about the choice, and it's benefits or disadvantages, that's fine - give them the opportunity to make an educated decision. But to withhold that info, because of generator prejudice, is wrong.
        Funny you should say that. That is exactly my point. The statement that "all bimodal systems need a generator" is showing prejudice.
        My point was that for many people a grid tied bimodal can be a nice fit without the generator.

        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
        Well pump and fridge can flatten a battery bank pretty quick if there is even 1 day of not full sun. Having a generator, even something like a honda eu2000 clone, is critical, if you want to keep the system up under adverse conditions. And with the power of a generator, comes responsibility to care for it too.
        Well lets see. Just for arguments sake and because I am most familiar with my install lets use it (not that it is typical just that it is sized minimally for my "emergency" outage needs).

        The emergency panel tends to draw 0.1kW pretty consistently at night and when no one is home, and 0.25kW when we are home. Although it is more like 8 hours at the 250W range lets just split the day in have and say half of each, so a total of 4.2kWh for the day. Probably would be less as I did NOT put the water heater on the panel so showers will be a little shorter (but still able to have them), and would limit fridge open time to minimum.
        As I already pointed out the solar system was able to generate 7kWh on a dark overcast day (about the darkest full day that the panels were not covered with snow). I am seeing 1.5kWh generated on full days of rain. My battery bank is pretty small with just 4x 200ah for total of 9.6kWh, more practically 7.5kWh. So without really curbing any usage I can go 1.78 days without any solar input (snow cover).
        Snow I can remove, and I can shed some load.
        For example most of that 100W load during off times is satellite receiver, wireless router, backup disk, and internet router. They can all be shut down when not in use via a single switch if the power is out. Water usage can be limited on less sunny days (will be any way due to lack of hot water), Fridge open time can be limited.

        The point of a bimodal system isn't to be able to live on or off grid at will without noticing. Designing them like they are off grid systems is considerable overkill.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by russ View Post
          If a generator isn't started at least one time in two weeks the owner is a fool.

          If petrol is used as a fuel and the owner lets it sit and stagnate then again, the owner is a fool.
          agreed, so if the homeowner is not going to make such a commitment for say the small honda eu2000 that has been suggested here as well as many other threads???
          OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
            That is because you and your neighbors are stuck in a box. Pad mounted emergency generators do not use gasoline or Briggs and Straton Lawn mower engines that you buy at Wally World and throw into your trunk. They use LPG, Natural Gas or diesel which does not go bad and use 4 to 8 cylinder commercial grade engines like you would find in a tractor or heavy equipment made to outlive you.
            funny. But the suggestion is often to just pick up a honda 2000 genny...
            NG is not available in most rural areas as you might know.
            LP is also not often available as many people use it for heating, cooking and can get scarce in cold weather when most outages in north east happen.
            Diesel does need stabilizers for fuel that sits for long times and is quite costly. More efficient to heat your house with it.
            It is quite a bit more expense for equipment that is not going to be used for a typical bimodal install.
            You are bringing quite a bit of "Off GRID" bias to the conversation.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
              agreed, so if the homeowner is not going to make such a commitment for say the small honda eu2000 that has been suggested here as well as many other threads???
              The same guy isn't going to take care of a battery system - they just have to sit and wait for power.
              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
                You are bringing quite a bit of "Off GRID" bias to the conversation.
                Not at all - Sunking is not bringing hare brained schemes into being to claim off grid is anything except a loser.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
                  You are bringing quite a bit of "Off GRID" bias to the conversation.
                  Perhaps you should do some reading here on the forum I am not a fan of off-grid battery systems nor am I a fan of hybrid systems. I just design/build a lot of battery systems for telecom in very remote areas and a few grid systems for commercial applications.
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by russ View Post
                    The same guy isn't going to take care of a battery system - they just have to sit and wait for power.
                    Good point. Though a decent CC like the FM80 with properly set configuration and decent AGM batteries will require pretty minimal maintenance. The FlexPower One also comes with battery monitor and system monitor that will through alerts when things need to be replaced.
                    Nothing is zero maintenance but some things are low maintenance.
                    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                      Perhaps you should do some reading here on the forum I am not a fan of off-grid battery systems nor am I a fan of hybrid systems. I just design/build a lot of battery systems for telecom in very remote areas and a few grid systems for commercial applications.
                      ok, I would posit that both of those would likely be a bit more critical system than a residence.
                      We have a great deal of request from people in rural areas that have lived in the same house for years and are tired of losing power.
                      They want solar so save on their bills, but also want some benefits to not having to lose all their services during an outage.
                      This is why the new SMA Secure backup inverter is so popular.
                      With a true bimodal with batteries (even just a few AH) though like mine:
                      you don't have to plug things in on another outlet
                      have enough power to start motors like well
                      can drive things like well that are wired in (in my case with a step up transformer)
                      can keep computers up more reliably (acting as a UPS)
                      can have power at night.


                      Sure you can have more power with a generator, but that has other things to deal with, more costs, as well and for many is not what they are looking for. It might cover 90% or 95% or 99% of the outages they would have experienced but but with most things you pay a LOT more for the more "9"s you have in the coverage.

                      Blanket statements like "Any hybrid system requires a genny" is just not true. There are a heck of a lot of hybrid systems installed and functioning fine without a generator.
                      Now maybe for the level of power up absolute reliability that you are looking for it might be true that you need a generator but what you are really saying is that you need a generator to be comfortable with the reliability and that a solar system is an optional accessory for said generator.
                      OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post
                        Good point. Though a decent CC like the FM80 with properly set configuration and decent AGM batteries will require pretty minimal maintenance. The FlexPower One also comes with battery monitor and system monitor that will through alerts when things need to be replaced.
                        Nothing is zero maintenance but some things are low maintenance.
                        You gotta be a salesman to come up with such blather.

                        How many systems have you installed anyway?
                        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X