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  • #16
    Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
    The POCO is Black Hill Energy. I never thought about asking if I could use my own contractor, I will see what they say.
    See I told you I cared more about your money then you do.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #17
      Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
      I was just asking for opinions.

      Anyone else have any opinions?
      Not sure how you feel about propane, or if there are any issues with that in your location, but If i were in your shoes, I would design around as much propane or nat. gas as possible, and you can actually get the size of the solar system down quite a lot without sacrificing much. All the heavy energy hogs in most households (hot water, hot air, refrigeration, cooking, washing/drying clothes, etc) have propane/nat.gas appliance options, that only leaves lights and electronics and convenience circuits for your solar system, none of which is high draw. In most cases the propane appliances are more energy efficient than electric regardless of the source of the electric (solar or grid).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by LETitROLL View Post
        Not sure how you feel about propane, or if there are any issues with that in your location, but If i were in your shoes, I would design around as much propane or nat. gas as possible, and you can actually get the size of the solar system down quite a lot without sacrificing much. All the heavy energy hogs in most households (hot water, hot air, refrigeration, cooking, washing/drying clothes, etc) have propane/nat.gas appliance options, that only leaves lights and electronics and convenience circuits for your solar system, none of which is high draw. In most cases the propane appliances are more energy efficient than electric regardless of the source of the electric (solar or grid).
        Good points LetitROLL, should have said that too, cheers.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by LETitROLL View Post
          Not sure how you feel about propane, or if there are any issues with that in your location, but If i were in your shoes, I would design around as much propane or nat. gas as possible, and you can actually get the size of the solar system down quite a lot without sacrificing much. All the heavy energy hogs in most households (hot water, hot air, refrigeration, cooking, washing/drying clothes, etc) have propane/nat.gas appliance options, that only leaves lights and electronics and convenience circuits for your solar system, none of which is high draw. In most cases the propane appliances are more energy efficient than electric regardless of the source of the electric (solar or grid).
          The existing house is mainly propane powered with a small solar system that I know nothing about. I'm going to see it this weekend so I will know more then. It is a bank repo so the original owners are not around to ask questions.

          My plan would be to use propane for cooking, clothes drying and hot water. And pellets and propane backup for heat.

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          • #20
            When I was shopping for land here in Maine many of the properties I looked at did not have nearby grid power. $40k is not a bad price to pay to get grid power.

            I bought land that has grid access. In a township where most parcels of land do not have grid access.

            What I did not know back then, was how frequently the grid goes down. After 7 years living here, we have yet to see a full 30-day month go by with out at least one power outage. It might be for only 6 hours, it might be for a week, you can not predict how long any power outage will last.

            If I had paid an extra $40k to get power and it turned out that 'rural' power goes down a lot, I would have likely been upset.

            After 7 years of this BS, we finally setup Solar-power to give us reliable power.



            When a storm blows through, trees fall and power lines snap. Thousands of homes go dark. This is a normal thing in rural forest land. If there is 6 miles of power line going to 20 homes and that line goes down, that trouble-call is ranked by the number of customers who are dark in this case '20'. If another power line goes to 5 homes and it goes dark, it's trouble-call is ranked according to the customers on that line '5'. Outages that effect 1,000+ customers are worked on first. Outages that effect only a dozen homes may easily have to wait a week before crews show up. Outages that only effect one home, you might not get fixed after this storm, you might have to wait until after the next storm, before the crews finally get to you.
            4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
              There are no neighbors close by and since the property is 100 acres the 40k is jut to run the lines on the property.
              If it's only 100 acres, there are neighbors close by. It's possible if it's a small lot in the middle of larger ones that the buildings for those properties may not be close by (ex. 2+ miles away). But my guess is there are at least potential building sites a lot closer that the neighbors might want power to be brought in anyhow.

              Where's the power lines coming from / how far are they being run?
              Which neighbors would they be running past? Which neighbors would benefit because you're running lines 1/3 or 1/2 of the way to their property?


              And since it's a repo - you REALLY want to talk to the neighbors.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by foo1bar View Post
                If it's only 100 acres, there are neighbors close by. It's possible if it's a small lot in the middle of larger ones that the buildings for those properties may not be close by (ex. 2+ miles away). But my guess is there are at least potential building sites a lot closer that the neighbors might want power to be brought in anyhow.

                Where's the power lines coming from / how far are they being run?
                Which neighbors would they be running past? Which neighbors would benefit because you're running lines 1/3 or 1/2 of the way to their property?


                And since it's a repo - you REALLY want to talk to the neighbors.
                Almost all the surrounding lots are empty as of now so no current close neighbors. The closest neighbor is where the power would be run from and all of the new run of power would be on my property. The neighbors in the other direction are probably 1-2 miles away and are already on the grid with a different utility company.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
                  Almost all the surrounding lots are empty as of now so no current close neighbors.
                  If they're empty, they may still be interested in getting power to their lot. That increases the lot's value as a future home building site. Probably increases it significantly.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by foo1bar View Post
                    If they're empty, they may still be interested in getting power to their lot. That increases the lot's value as a future home building site. Probably increases it significantly.
                    Around here that difference is small.
                    4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Mots people talk about an off grid solar system as an alternative to grid connect where they take a daily usage figure and then say that the off grid system will do the same as grid connect.

                      Its simply not the case. if take a random figure, say 10kwh a day of usage then compare the two.

                      If you are off grid you will stress over that 10kwh, when its used, will it be sunny tomorrow, dont run to much at night etc etc. Your purchases of appliances will be on their power usage, not price. You will budget for say 5 year battery life, 10 year inverter, controller life and 20 year panel life. If you want to lead a simplistic lifestyle then it may be an option. But as has been said, it should only be it grid is really not an option.

                      If you are on grid you can use that 10kwh when ever you want. If you want to weld and grind at night with all the shed lights blazing its all good. If friends want to come and park their RV in your yard for two weeks and run the A/C and use their electric jug and toaster that will be fine. You dont even need to worry about blowing your 10kwh budget, you can use as much as you want and any time you want. If the wife wants to iron clothes for 2 hours at night no drama.

                      I live of grid and its a pain. We have learnt to live with it but if I had my time again I would never but a property without grid.

                      Grid and off grid are not apples for apples, they are two totally different life styles. If you are worried about when the grid goes down you can install an autostart genset that will start up when the grid goes off and keep your essential appliances running or your whole house if you want. Unless you are totally in tune with your off grid system you will need one anyway.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ColoradoBound,
                        If you decide to go off-grid know it is a commitment and it should start with you outlining what you expect your system to do. After you do that, then you can begin to look into "how" these tasks can be performed - with or without electricity. There are some pretty savvy people out there that have found some very creative ways to do a previous job in a different way - there's no need to reinvent the wheel unless you want to.

                        Where I've been, most average residential households are bad candidates for off-grid. Things like "shutting lights off when they're not needed" can be a monumental behavior modification for some. Many of those dwellings are littered with inefficient appliances that would be incredibly pricey to feed in an off-grid place. The houses themselves weren't designed for efficiency - another issue in the overall picture. And then there's the folks who want to go off-grid and don't know (or don't especially care) to learn anything about their systems - like "best practices" or "the limitations of" - this can cause headaches and failed equipment and endless expense among other things. The list goes on-and-on.

                        However, if you are handy, wish to learn and maintain your own system and tweak it to your needs, it can be very reliable and robust and not break the bank.

                        I've lived off-grid for over 13 years now. What I do certainly is not for everyone but it works and there is very little generator run-time beyond the monthly 30 minute maintenance runs. Geographically, this is a tough area to accomplish that - or so I've witnessed.

                        In this experiment I've just finally retired my 1st set of batteries. There have been no other failures in this relatively small system. I haven't lost power ever, I do weld, have an air conditioner (one), fridge, freezer, etc...

                        The utility line is a mere 30 feet from the house next to the driveway.

                        The old entrance cable makes a wonderful clothes line.

                        Good luck in whatever you choose - life is short!

                        ~CrazyJerry
                        [B]I'm around...[/B]

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by CrazyJerry View Post
                          ColoradoBound,
                          If you decide to go off-grid know it is a commitment and it should start with you outlining what you expect your system to do. After you do that, then you can begin to look into "how" these tasks can be performed - with or without electricity. There are some pretty savvy people out there that have found some very creative ways to do a previous job in a different way - there's no need to reinvent the wheel unless you want to.

                          Where I've been, most average residential households are bad candidates for off-grid. Things like "shutting lights off when they're not needed" can be a monumental behavior modification for some. Many of those dwellings are littered with inefficient appliances that would be incredibly pricey to feed in an off-grid place. The houses themselves weren't designed for efficiency - another issue in the overall picture. And then there's the folks who want to go off-grid and don't know (or don't especially care) to learn anything about their systems - like "best practices" or "the limitations of" - this can cause headaches and failed equipment and endless expense among other things. The list goes on-and-on.

                          However, if you are handy, wish to learn and maintain your own system and tweak it to your needs, it can be very reliable and robust and not break the bank.

                          I've lived off-grid for over 13 years now. What I do certainly is not for everyone but it works and there is very little generator run-time beyond the monthly 30 minute maintenance runs. Geographically, this is a tough area to accomplish that - or so I've witnessed.

                          In this experiment I've just finally retired my 1st set of batteries. There have been no other failures in this relatively small system. I haven't lost power ever, I do weld, have an air conditioner (one), fridge, freezer, etc...

                          The utility line is a mere 30 feet from the house next to the driveway.

                          The old entrance cable makes a wonderful clothes line.

                          Good luck in whatever you choose - life is short!

                          ~CrazyJerry
                          FWIW, nicely done and nicely communicated.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                            FWIW, nicely done and nicely communicated.
                            Thank you!
                            ~CrazyJerry
                            [B]I'm around...[/B]

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