2000k system only puts out 500 watt why?

[charles2,david000k]

For those that missed it, This is a dumpload controller. When battery voltage is 28.8V it dumps everything from the wind genny and solar panels to a dumpload (heating element.

If the panels are only putting out 5 amps to the dumpload then you need to check and make sure one of your heating elements isn't burnt out.

WWW

No heating elements. The solenoid put the panels into float mode when voltage reaches a certain preset voltage. I pulled the old one apart and you could see where the contacts stuck. I tried to clean up the contacts but the wire coil had burnt up also and I have never rewrapped a coil I would lose count of my turns but I have the basic ideal.

[charles2,david000k]

Most likely he doesn't know what he has. It appears to be a shunt controller that activates a solenoid as a dumpload controller when it hit's 28.8V. His diagram shows a CC with a solenoid directly above it.

WWW

No shunt I was thinking of getting one. It is a dumpload controller but it just puts the panel on float.

[charles2,david000k]

How did you measured the 60+ A ? What device did you used and how ?

Fluke 75 multimeter. When we set up we went in 3 stages. After the first stage it was the panels we tested at the combiner box with meter to dc amps and pulled 64 amps from the combiner box. and I thought the meter was bad but I just checked it with a 12 volt battery charger because the dog chewed the cord and it read 13-14 volts 6.5 amps on a 12v 6amp charger. I also checked the panels when I first got them by inserting red probe to + and black to - then checked voltage and current when we first pulled the panels off the pallet. They all pulled 38.1V and 8.6 to 8.7A. I don't have a clamp type meter but am looking into picking one up.

[charles2,david000k]

I am going to try and go over setup of the system please forgive me if I missed anything.

This is on 8 solar panels 250watt
We did this in three stages

stage #1 We build the frame/stand with the left facing east center facing south and the right side to the west so panels would get good sun. We unloaded panels off pallet and tested each one as they came off. I set my Fluke 75 multimeter to DC volts or Amp with red probe going from + to red volt Ohm diode test and - to black/com and pulled 38V 64amps. Then we mounted the panels to the rack and ran ground to it's own grounding rod. we then put our wiring harness together to run sets of two panels in parallel at a time to the combiner box. ran all my positives to positive and all my negatives to negative in my combiner box. Then went back and hooked up one panel at a time to the wiring harness negative first then positive all the way down the line until I got to the combiner box. At that point we tested using the same method above and got a reading of 38 volts and 64 amps.

stage #2 We ran 4 Awg jumper cable wire from combiner box black- first then red+ next and took reading for voltage drop reading still same 38V 64A. Then with the disconnect disconnected I ran 4 Awg black- to battery bank and 4Awg red+ to charge controller then to the battery bank. and hooked the two charge controller sensor wires to the battery bank black to - and red to + and tested charge controller black probe to - in panel side of the disconnect box and the + red to panel input on charge controler same reading moved red probe to solenoid panel output and got same reading. checked battery bank and got 25v and 10A

stage #3 We ran the ground for the inverter then 2Awg wire from battery bank to the inverter negative first then positive to inline 250 amp 32v audiopipe fuse 7 inches from inverter then ran 2Awg the rest of the way to the inverters. At that point we turn the inverter on and all ran good after that we ran are AC wiring to the 200 amp panel through a 40 amp breaker and flipped the system back on. O no grid power It would kill the inverter if you feed both inverter output and gid in to same panel we later ran the grid power to a 100 amp sub panel with another 40 amp breaker to feed the inverter. What the inverter is set up to do is bypass grid power from outside utility meter to inside 200 amp main service panel. When the grid goes down or becomes unstable it switches within a 10th of a second to battery bank.

I was to start off with 8 panel and later buy 8 more but with the drop off after 3 month and no one touched the thing except me to mop the panels off of dust I have not bought the rest and won't.

But when it did run the only thing that gave the inverter a hard time with no grid feed was a water heater and that was if it had been left off for days and tried to turn on with no grid power and its 220V 4,500 watts. But then again inverter out put is 115V 20amps AC on each hot leg. I did my own rough in and passed first time but this is holding me up also on my final electrical inspection. Build my own home from the ground up. Hopefuly I can get a methane digester in by next summer and be 100% off grid.

landscape is ten acres of cleared land at the top of a mountain nothing but rock the deepest you can dig is 5 foot and that's my well you can see the Tennessee Smokies on a clear day great line of sight but pore reception on anything unless its satellite and that's over head old nextel use to work here but not well I think it has something to do with the high voltage line that cut over the mountain close to here coming from watts bar nuclear power plant. They have had a downed tower due to a leak since the early 90s but say they have it fixed and are bringing it up in december.

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out. My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

1442182452435.jpg1442182427385.jpg1442182284048.jpginverter tag.jpgMW440ECCDIG_24V_500.jpg3pall_DIG & 3phbcDIG inst. sheetWHITE COVER .pdfSolarFennel250 (4).pdf

I tried to get my drawling to upload but file was to big. The photo of the panels are to show browning and bubbles on the solder. This is what I first thought could be causing the problems.

[sensij]

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out. My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

Thanks for posting all of the additional information. A couple of quick thoughts...

There is no need for a dump relay / solenoid in a PV system. It does not put your system in "float", it disconnects the array completely. A "charge controller" of this type is capable of completing only the "bulk" stage of a traditional charge cycle, which means you will never get more than 80-90% SOC, gradually less as chronic undercharging reduces the capacity over time. With only the battery to regulate the array voltage, it won't be operating at its maximum power point very much of the time. There are inexpensive MPPT controllers that will do a much better job for you.

If you want more battery capacity (and based on the loads you want to run, that is a good idea), get away from the 12 V batteries. 6 pairs in parallel will be impossible to balance and will not last very long. To get 420 Ah at 24 V, you should look at 4 x 6 V batteries, 420 Ah each, creating a single 24 V string. The 370 Ah Trojan L16RE-B, or something like it, would be a much better choice.

[jflorey2]

Fluke 75 multimeter. When we set up we went in 3 stages. After the first stage it was the panels we tested at the combiner box with meter to dc amps and pulled 64 amps from the combiner box.

A Fluke 75 will only measure 10 amps. Not sure what you were seeing.

I am looking into replacing the charge controler but don't want some expensive charge controller that is going to work like junk and burn out.

Then get a good one. There are some excellent charge controllers out there.

My battery bank needs to be bigger two 12 volt 70Ah series together to make 24 just don't work I am also going to expand the battery bank to 6 sets of 2 giving me 420Ah.

Putting lots of lead acid batteries in parallel generally doesn't work well, and will result in batteries with very short lives. You are much better off getting batteries that allow you to use a single (or at most 2) strings of batteries.

The solenoid put the panels into float mode when voltage reaches a certain preset voltage. I pulled the old one apart and you could see where the contacts stuck. I tried to clean up the contacts but the wire coil had burnt up . . . .

So you are operating without a charge controller now? That's a very bad idea, and will likely result in problems for both your battery pack and inverter as voltages get too high. BTW your controller is a shunt load controller, which means you need those loads on it.

[inetdog]

A Fluke 75 will only measure 10 amps. Not sure what you were seeing.

And trying to put through 60A on the 10A range will blow an internal fuse.
Once the fuse is blown it is not at all clear what if anything the meter is measuring if one tries to use that range.

[jflorey2]

There is no need for a dump relay / solenoid in a PV system. It does not put your system in "float", it disconnects the array completely.

I think he needs the dump load for his wind generation (from his diagram.) They are unregulated wild AC types that require a load at all times to prevent overspeed; you can't disconnect them as you would with a standard PWM controller.

Dump loads (i.e. diversion controllers) can work pretty well, and can do as good a job as a standard PWM controller in terms of regulating battery voltage and completing charge cycles. There are some unique issues though:

-The load has to be able to take the maximum power the system can generate (high wind, cloud lensing, cold day, snow on ground etc.) So it will often be big.
-It does not "fail safe." If the controller fails the system goes open loop and voltages get very high. (One reason it's a bad idea to use incandescent light bulbs as loads - they burn out.)

I've seen at least one installation that has two loads - the standard controller with a smaller load for 90% of the regulation, and a larger controller set to a slightly higher voltage with a much larger load. That way you don't have to oversize the first load, and you have a backup to prevent system damage if the first controller/load fails.

[sensij]

I think he needs the dump load for his wind generation (from his diagram.) They are unregulated wild AC types that require a load at all times to prevent overspeed; you can't disconnect them as you would with a standard PWM controller.

I don't think op has wind, it looks like a generic diagram from the reseller.

How does a diversion controller get through absorb? If the array is making more power (current) than the battery can take, the voltage will rise and trip the relay. If the array is generating less current, it will trickle charge, but not truly top off.

[jflorey2]

How does a diversion controller get through absorb? If the array is making more power (current) than the battery can take, the voltage will rise and trip the relay. If the array is generating less current, it will trickle charge, but not truly top off.

That's the same issue a PWM controller has. They are either on or off; nothing in between. But by turning them on and off somewhat rapidly you can get an approximation of the correct voltage.

[charles2,david000k]

I am liking what I have been reading on the MPPT charge controllers.

Will this meter work for reading my system http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...FdgUgQod5EwDbg

My battery bank does hold a charge of 25.6 to 26 volts when not in use. The charge controller I use now will rapidly turn on and off until the bank is fully charged then stays off until bank voltage falls to 23.9 before charging start over again.

[Mike90250]

I am liking what I have been reading on the MPPT charge controllers.

Will this meter work for reading my system http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...FdgUgQod5EwDbg

My battery bank does hold a charge of 25.6 to 26 volts when not in use. The charge controller I use now will rapidly turn on and off until the bank is fully charged then stays off until bank voltage falls to 23.9 before charging start over again.

Yes, I have had 2 of those (first one stopped working) and they are pretty good for the price, the next better one for DC is quite expensive.

[charles2,david000k]

Thanks for posting all of the additional information. A couple of quick thoughts...

There is no need for a dump relay / solenoid in a PV system. It does not put your system in "float", it disconnects the array completely. A "charge controller" of this type is capable of completing only the "bulk" stage of a traditional charge cycle, which means you will never get more than 80-90% SOC, gradually less as chronic undercharging reduces the capacity over time. With only the battery to regulate the array voltage, it won't be operating at its maximum power point very much of the time. There are inexpensive MPPT controllers that will do a much better job for you.

If you want more battery capacity (and based on the loads you want to run, that is a good idea), get away from the 12 V batteries. 6 pairs in parallel will be impossible to balance and will not last very long. To get 420 Ah at 24 V, you should look at 4 x 6 V batteries, 420 Ah each, creating a single 24 V string. The 370 Ah Trojan L16RE-B, or something like it, would be a much better choice.

I did look into the trojan battery line before but what had put me off was the price+shipping. I do like the ideal of lead acid so you can just top off the battery if needed but somewhere along the line someone had told me sealed AGM was the best not so sure about that now! But life is all trial and error. Also just by looking at the weight of the battery you can tell the plate have to be big which = more conductive surface.

I was thinking about why did I buy a dumpload charge controller and I remembered I was going to wire the charge controller so that when it did dump it would just switch the incoming power from charging the batteries to a grid tie inverter but then came the whole battle with my power co-op over a $1,000 connection fees just for them to log it in their system plus they only give me back a .02 credit which I can't use and turn around and charge me .10 cents for the same Kwh i just gave them. Which is something else I been meaning to ask is what does your local power company pay residential green power providers? Cash in hand credit does not count because you can't buy replacement parts and upkeep etcetera with a power credit.

[jflorey2]

I was thinking about why did I buy a dumpload charge controller and I remembered I was going to wire the charge controller so that when it did dump it would just switch the incoming power from charging the batteries to a grid tie inverter

Woah there; you don't need a dump load if you have a hybrid inverter. You program the inverter to sell back to the load when X happens. X is usually "voltage over sell limit" which works well with most battery systems.

but then came the whole battle with my power co-op over a $1,000 connection fees just for them to log it in their system plus they only give me back a .02 credit which I can't use and turn around and charge me .10 cents for the same Kwh i just gave them.

So you are paying .08 cents a kilowatt-hour for storage. How much will the same amount of battery cost you over the lifetime of your system? A T105 can be cycled ~500 times to 50% without serious degradation, which means you can get .6kwhr 500 times for about $100. Sounds like that would cost you around .33 cents for the same service from a (cheap) battery Even if you can get to 1000 cycles you are still at .16 cents per kwhr.

Sounds like your battery is ripping you off, compared to the utility!

[inetdog]

Woah there; you don't need a dump load if you have a hybrid inverter. You program the inverter to sell back to the load when X happens. X is usually "voltage over sell limit" which works well with most battery systems.

You do need a dump load if your hybrid inverter is there just to integrate with a generator and there is no grid connection. The OP stated, I believe, that there is no grid connection at this time.