Enphase Battery information

[solar_newbie]

You can't do it with the Outback and a standard battery pack; the "sell to grid" settings effectively require you to have an external DC source to get the battery voltage high enough to sell. Per the tech support person I talked to at Outback this was partially because they did NOT want to be able to do power arbitrage, due to pressure from utilities.

(BTW it's still doable; you just have to run at a higher battery voltage. I am currently running at 54 volts and it works pretty well at that voltage, although there are problems with charging the battery from the grid due to lower available cell voltages.)

What is I see Enphase total energy idea is the great idea. Especially they conform with rule 21 from POCO. I will wait to see if it can be used to charge from the grid or not, but per ad from Enphase it is .. Smart AC
Powerwall is useless according to tesla usage case on their website. Maybe for people who want to use energy from solar day and night without selling/buying any juice to/from POCO. Or dump people who see the slide and feel it is right thing to do

Feel free to see the website about Powerwall

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

[Willy T]

I got from Tesla. The usage case is to charge battery during the day (peak time) and use during the night. It does not make any sense until POCO not allow you to sell power back to their grid (unlimited battery with 100% efficiency)

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

Since you are not control inverter, there is no way to charge during night time Plus rule 21 requires you are not put the power you charge on your battery to the grid. Who will control it. Battery itself can not. You need a hardware to connect to your smart meter to control it.

It has nothing to do with selling, it has to do with offsetting the top tier pricing, using the battery instead of the grid. You are using a Battery to power the Inverter instead of PV. The Solar Edge Inverter will act as a hybrid Inverter with the battery. Don't be surprised if the battery does not control the power that is used.

From your Link:

Avoid Paying Peak Rates
Power companies often charge a higher price for electricity during peak evening hours than overnight when demand is low. Powerwall can store electricity when rates are low and power your home when rates are high.

[solar_newbie]

It has nothing to do with selling, it has to do with offsetting the top tier pricing, using the battery instead of the grid. You are using a Battery to power the Inverter instead of PV. The Solar Edge Inverter will act as a hybrid Inverter with the battery. Don't be surprised if the battery does not control the power that is used.

From your Link:

Avoid Paying Peak Rates
Power companies often charge a higher price for electricity during peak evening hours than overnight when demand is low. Powerwall can store electricity when rates are low and power your home when rates are high.

Yeap. I guess I miss this. Now, it is time to wait for the two solutions come to live ... I got space ready for enphase battery in my garage and also have extra space in the new sub-panel for them.

[UkiwiS]

Have anyone had more info about enphase battery ? I see it is more usefully vs Tesla power wall.

For Tesla, you must have solar and feed DC power from solar during the day to charge the battery and use it during the night. It is stupid it is 1-1 convert. If I sell my power during the day to power company and buy back during the night, I got 2X - 3X benefit.

What the best is to buy power during the night and use during the day. Sell everything solar generate during the night. So my value from solar increase 2-3 times

I am not sure if I could control Enphase AC battery to charge during the night and supply during the day or not?

For example with 5KW system, it can generate around 22KWH per day. If I use 12kwh during day time and 20kwh during night time. I virtually can sell 10Kwh to get 20kwh credit for night time to use (Assume 2x credit different in TOU)
Now, if I have 12kwh smart AC battery, I will move all my usage to night time of 32kwh. Charge the 12kwh battery at night and use during day time. Solar power will put back to the grid during day time to get 44kwh credit. So I get 12 extra kWh for any extra things to use.

If I use 10 kWh tesla powerwall, I will end up to pay 10kwh more for my night usage as I get zero credit from Power company
If I use 20 kWh tesla Powerwall, I end up to pay 10kwh day cost which is equal to 20kwh night cost.

I do not see any benefit to have solar edge and tesla power wall for Us where net meter is provided.
What do you guys think?

Is this what you are referring too?

http://www.utilitydive.com/news/new-enphase-solar-storage-product-combines-monitoring-control-in-a-single/408350/

Dive Brief:
Enphase Energy Inc. says it plans to introduce a novel residential solar storage battery system in Australia and New Zealand this December that would be one of the first capable of storing, monitoring and controlling power use.
The storage system includes integrated software that gives homeowners flexibility in their energy usage and storage.
The system weighs about 55 pounds, and the lithium-iron-phosphate battery stores 1.2 kWh and has 275,550 watts of power output.


I use on average 25 kWhr per day. This battery will give me enough energy for a little over an hour of operation. I do not see the point of it but I might be missing something

[DanKegel]

I didn't see anyone post a link to Enphase's page about the product, so here it is:

https://enphase.com/en-au/products-and-services/storage

My quick and relatively uniformed take:
It's roughly $1.2k plus installation for about 1.2kWh of storage, 7300 cycle / 10 year lifetime,
designed for people who are grid-tied but have a crappy feed-in tariff
and have a strong economic incentive to use all their solar themselves
by shifting some of it to nighttime.

Dunno how far 1.2kWh would go for my house, we probably use a lot more than
that after dark. But maybe the average Australian solar user uses less power
than my old house does.

[solarz]

1.2kwh per battery. I assume they can be stacked like S280 inverter (max 14 per string). Max per string can hold 16.8Kwh. It is much more enough for peak hour.
If we charge during the night or morning and use during peak hour (5PM-9PM), it will help a lot.
The weight is 40lb. It can be installed by homeowner ... on multiple different place in the garage (spread the weight across multiple studs.).

I check powerwall (7KW) from Tesla. The weight is 100 kg (220lb). I am not sure how homeowner can install it and how the stud can hold that weight.

For the price point the battery seems expensive around $800/kwh. S280 inverter is around $160, so the battery is around $640. I am not sure if it is worth to buy them.
I got the same issue with Powerwall on the feasibility ... maybe just for fun, not actually profitable solution. $3000 plus inverter cost for 3.3KW inverter. It could go to at least $5,000. Plus professional installation, it will reach to at least $6000 each. Same price comparing to Enphase.

[ndabunka]

...I got the same issue with Powerwall on the feasibility ... maybe just for fun, not actually profitable solution. $3000 plus inverter cost for 3.3KW inverter. It could go to at least $5,000. Plus professional installation, it will reach to at least $6000 each. Same price comparing to Enphase.

Powerwall is $3,500. We have a SolarEdge inverter already so no "extra" costs there and it ships in EARLY 2016. Enphase won't be available until LATE 2016 and may well have those types of costs (e.g. over $6K for Enphase based on their existing marketing literature)

[SunEagle]

Powerwall is $3,500. SolarEdge inverter already so no "extra" costs there and it ships.. EARLY 2016.
Enphase won't be available until LATE 2016 and may well have those types of costs.

I would not count on that $3500 price tag even if you have a Solaredge inverter. Based on all the info I have found the costs may go up and additional hardware will be required even if you have SolarEdge to begin with.

[DanKegel]

I would not count on that $3500 price tag even if you have a Solaredge inverter. Based on all the info I have found the costs may go up and additional hardware will be required even if you have SolarEdge to begin with.

Yep. I would be surprised if the SolarEdge I am buying now could be economically retrofitted with a battery. It's always something.

[ndabunka]

Yep. I would be surprised if the SolarEdge I am buying now could be economically retrofitted with a battery. It's always something.

If the Battery option is under consideration, why would you even but one that was not able to accommodate it, price constraints or something?

Here's the SolarEdge Data Sheet that shows that the SE7600A-USS that we have on order...
Is ALREADY DESIGNED to work with them.

[SunEagle]

If the Battery option is under consideration, why would you even but one that was not able to accommodate it, price constraints or something?

Here's the SolarEdge Data Sheet that shows that the SE7600A-USS that we have on order...
Is ALREADY DESIGNED to work with them.

That data sheet looks like the Powerwall battery system would work with that inverter but you may still need to purchase and install an autotransformer.

The other issue would be do any of the smaller (7600kw) inverters match up to the Powerwall battery system like the SE7600A-USS model?

[ndabunka]

...The other issue would be do any of the smaller (7600kw) inverters match up to the Powerwall battery system like the SE7600A-USS model?

The attachment provided IS for the SE7600A-USS and it shows that it works with the PowerWall Battery system (Page 3) so your statement doesn't make any sense.

[ndabunka]

Vanadium Redox Flow Batteries?

A year or two back I saw this article on the Vanadium Redox Flow battery but have not seen anything in these forums. Perhaps it's too "cutting edge" to be considered for home solar?

http://www.ceic.unsw.edu.au/centers/vrb/technology-services/vanadium-redox-flow-batteries.html

[SunEagle]

The attachment provided IS for the SE7600A-USS and it shows that it works with the PowerWall Battery system (Page 3) so your statement doesn't make any sense.

What I meant is if a solar system design required a smaller wattage inverter or multiple inverters smaller than the 7600 would those units work or does the PowerWall battery only work with the 7600?

One of the shortcomings of installing a large inverter is the size of the main panel buss rating and the size of the back feed breaker. Some panels are too small to install an inverter that "can" generate 7600 watts.

So my question is does SolarEdge make other sized inverters that work with a PowerWall battery or will the homeowner have to replace the existing inverter with that 7600 rated one?

[ndabunka]

What I meant is if a solar system design required a smaller wattage inverter or multiple inverters smaller than the 7600 would those units work or does the PowerWall battery only work with the 7600?

One of the shortcomings of installing a large inverter is the size of the main panel buss rating and the size of the back feed breaker. Some panels are too small to install an inverter that "can" generate 7600 watts.

So my question is does SolarEdge make other sized inverters that work with a PowerWall battery or will the homeowner have to replace the existing inverter with that 7600 rated one?

Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately I would not be able to provide any additional guidance beyond the design that was done for us. I will leave the balance of that type of research to others more knowledgeable with the SE products.