Check my system

[Bearclaw]

I have 4- 100 watt panels(renogy mono crystalline), a 30 amp controller, 4 batteries-12 volt each, and a 1000 watt inverter.
What size mppt cc would I require?
What about a better inverter to charge all electronics?

[lkruper]

I have 4- 100 watt panels(renogy mono crystalline), a 30 amp controller, 4 batteries-12 volt each, and a 1000 watt inverter.
What size mppt cc would I require?
What about a better inverter to charge all electronics?

Bearclaw,
You will need to measure and define all your loads before you know if your batteries will thrive or die. You also don't identify your batteries, so it is impossible to help you know what they can charge. If you have deep cycle batteries they will have a 20 Hr AH (Amp Hour) rating. You will also need to locate the insolation values for your area to see how much power you will get from your panels in winter and summer.

[Bearclaw]

Check my system

Bearclaw,
You will need to measure and define all your loads before you know if your batteries will thrive or die. You also don't identify your batteries, so it is impossible to help you know what they can charge. If you have deep cycle batteries they will have a 20 Hr AH (Amp Hour) rating. You will also need to locate the insolation values for your area to see how much power you will get from your panels in winter and summer.

I made a mistake when buying the batteries and got auto batts(800cca and 650ca, I will only power 4 led lights, T.V. And cable box, and small fireplace insert blower. Total is below 5amps.
Batteries will be replaced with deep cycle batts when these quit.

[lkruper]

I made a mistake when buying the batteries and got auto batts(800cca and 650ca, I will only power 4 led lights, T.V. And cable box, and small fireplace insert blower. Total is below 5amps.
Batteries will be replaced with deep cycle batts when these quit.

That is 720 watts at 120 volts. The total can help you with sizing your inverter, but you will need to provide the number of hours each device will be used in one day so that you can add up your wattage usage for a day. Can I assume that you do not have any utility power?

[PNjunction]

I made a mistake when buying the batteries and got auto batts(800cca and 650ca, I will only power 4 led lights, T.V. And cable box, and small fireplace insert blower. Total is below 5amps.
Batteries will be replaced with deep cycle batts when these quit.

Ah yes, you will shortly. But until then, never take more than maybe 20% from an SLI. We're still going to be hammering it somewhat, but at least it will be useful. I'm doing the same thing as a total goof project purposely using the wrong battery just for fun.

An 800cca sli like an Interstate 24m-xhd has a rated 81ah capacity, although you'll never be able to actually use all that in a slow-drain application - not for many cycles anyway.

So, lets gets some watthours out of it: 81ah * 12v = 972wh. Whaddya' know, it agrees with their specs.

But we can only play with about 20% of that, sooooo 972 * .20 = 194wh to actually play with daily.

So, if you are pulling lets say worst case 5A at the terminals, that is about 5 * 12 = 60w.

You can now watch tv, lights and so forth for about 194 / 60 = 3.2 hours before you should definitely stop!

RECHARGE

Most flooded batts are rated between C/8 and C/12 for the charge current. That would be 81ah / 8 = 10.12A on the high side, and 81/12= 6.75a on the low side.

Id probably put no more than 1 or 2 panels on a single 800cca (81ah) battery. Recharge asap, like next day worst case!

Tips: Now that you know your loads are only pulling about 60w total, it makes much more sense from an efficiency standpoint to lower the wattage of your inverter. Make it about 120w capable or so, and it should handle the minute startup current as well since you aren't using motors and the like.

If you value your tv, get a PSW inverter - something along the lines of a Morningstar 300w unit, or even a smaller Samlex 150w psw. Avoid msw if you can, because even if you think you are getting away with it, stuff just doesn't run efficiently, meeting their demise sooner.

Note: If your battery has an "RC" rating, you can use that too to ballpark the Ah rating. Just multiply RC * 0.6

Yep - we all know that an SLI in a continuous draw situation is not ideal, but you can make use of it somewhat if you treat it with kindness.

[Bearclaw]

Check my system

That is 720 watts at 120 volts. The total can help you with sizing your inverter, but you will need to provide the number of hours each device will be used in one day so that you can add up your wattage usage for a day. Can I assume that you do not have any utility power?

Assumption is correct, it's a hunting camp.
T.v.& cable===============4 hours/day
Fireplace=================7 hours/day
Lights==================5 hours/day

[PNjunction]

Assumption is correct, it's a hunting camp.
T.v.& cable===============4 hours/day
Fireplace=================7 hours/day
Lights==================5 hours/day

Yeah, not going to happen with the SLI batteries.

Forgot - to save as much power possible, if your tv is a backlit lcd, turn down the backlighting and NOT the brightness as far as you can stand. Give some time to get used to the abrupt change. It is possible to draw about 50% less power, easily 25% or more by turning the backlighting down.

Back to our regularly scheduled program...

Have you actually measured that stuff when it is all on? Are you pulling less than 5A DC amps from the battery terminals? I don't think so, but maybe.

You've got the times down - great. But what is the actual total wattage? Something like a P3-International Kill-A-Watt meter model 4400 really helps here. Put one of these on your TV, and turn down the backlighting. wow.

We can also work from a dc current measurement too. Are you using a clamp-on ammeter or such?

Basically what we are shooting for is a battery with a watthour rating at least TWICE your requirement so as to get relatively decent cycle life from it. Also, where is this camp located geographically? There is a thing called solar-insolation hours, which differ from sunrise-to-sunset to deal with.

[lkruper]

Yeah, not going to happen with the SLI batteries.

Forgot - to save as much power possible, if your tv is a backlit lcd, turn down the backlighting and NOT the brightness as far as you can stand. Give some time to get used to the abrupt change. It is possible to draw about 50% less power, easily 25% or more by turning the backlighting down.

Back to our regularly scheduled program...

Have you actually measured that stuff when it is all on? Are you pulling less than 5A DC amps from the battery terminals? I don't think so, but maybe.

You've got the times down - great. But what is the actual total wattage? Something like a P3-International Kill-A-Watt meter model 4400 really helps here. Put one of these on your TV, and turn down the backlighting. wow.

We can also work from a dc current measurement too. Are you using a clamp-on ammeter or such?

Basically what we are shooting for is a battery with a watthour rating at least TWICE your requirement so as to get relatively decent cycle life from it. Also, where is this camp located geographically? There is a thing called solar-insolation hours, which differ from sunrise-to-sunset to deal with.

I had assumed he meant 6 amps of 120v AC, not 6 amps DC @ 12v. That makes a big difference! But which is it?

[Bearclaw]

Check my system

I had assumed he meant 6 amps of 120v AC, not 6 amps DC @ 12v. That makes a big difference! But which is it?

Yes that's 6amps AC. I ordered the psw inverter and the kill-a-watt as suggested.
Is it O.K. To plug the kill-a-watt into the inverter then plug my extension cord with the TV,cable and lights into the k-a-w?

[lkruper]

Yes that's 6amps AC. I ordered the psw inverter and the kill-a-watt as suggested.
Is it O.K. To plug the kill-a-watt into the inverter then plug my extension cord with the TV,cable and lights into the k-a-w?

Yes, that is how to hook it up. Your 6 amps AC sounds high for the devices you list. When you get a chance, itemize them individually. Conservation will go a long way to using your solar/battery capacity efficiently.

[PNjunction]

Yep - on the inverter is ok.

Of course you can pre-plan if you have access to commercial AC power, and just start measuring your wattage * hours and tallying things up before heading to the camp with a properly sized deep-cycle batt.

Deep-cycle battery of course, although what are your needs in this arena? Can you handle flooded batts, or do you need the convenience of sealed agm? Will the batteries need to be portable and humped to and fro from the camp, or can they stay there? Is this a walk-in situation, or can they be brought by 4x4?

[Bearclaw]

Yes, that is how to hook it up. Your 6 amps AC sounds high for the devices you list. When you get a chance, itemize them individually. Conservation will go a long way to using your solar/battery capacity efficiently.

My new inverter is 300 watts how many amps will I be capable of running, I like to run a small vacuum cleaner periodically.
The amps I quoted were taken from the electrical specs on each unit, the TV as listed only as 125 watts.

[inetdog]

My new inverter is 300 watts how many amps will I be capable of running, I like to run a small vacuum cleaner periodically.
The amps I quoted were taken from the electrical specs on each unit, the TV as listed only as 125 watts.

300 watts at 120V AC would be 300/120 = 2.5A.
Basic math.
If there were no losses at all in the inverter, that would be 25A at 12V DC.

The reason that you use a KillAWatt or other energy meter is that the A specification and the Watts specification, whichever the appliance has, will be the maximum, not the average power consumption.
Designing to the maximum may cause you to overbuild your system and spend more money.

[lkruper]

My new inverter is 300 watts how many amps will I be capable of running, I like to run a small vacuum cleaner periodically.
The amps I quoted were taken from the electrical specs on each unit, the TV as listed only as 125 watts.

You may find that you cannot vacuum when you are watching TV Here is the good news and the bad news with respect to your TV (and other devices). If the TV lists 125 watts it is probably not that high on average. The bad news is that there is a surge when starting a device up to 2X the watts. So, for example my 32" Sony reads 32w when running but when I started it up it jumped to 55 watts. I could not believe it! A TV with no motor or anything.

Here is a hint. Play with the settings on your TV. If my TV is in the mode where they like to run at the big box stores selling TVs, they have the display set bright and vivid. When I turned it down to an ECO setting it dropped to about 68w. Then I played with other settings and got it down to 32w. Amazing! A couple months ago I tried this in front of my wife. She immediately did not like it. Then I did it covertly a few weeks later. She never noticed and did not complain. Do what you need to do

I was not sure my Kill-o-watt would show the surge, but the one for my TV lasted a second or so. You will need to do the same with anything that has a motor or a compressor for sure.

So, to size your inverter, you need to know the average watts when running and then account for the surge. Most inverter specs list the wattage for running and the surge. Your 300w inverter will likely handle from 400w to 600w for surge.

[inetdog]

So, for example my 32" Sony reads 32w when running but when I started it up it jumped to 55 watts. I could not believe it! A TV with no motor or anything.

This is typical of any electronics with a well filtered power supply. Some of the older devices that used a lot more total power, including tube filaments, would use a series thermistor (with negative temperature coefficient of resistance) to limit the initial surge to a reasonable value. It also increased the life of the tube filaments, like soft starting an incandescent light bulb.
Modern devices with far lower total power consumption apparently do not feel the need to mitigate the surge.