AC Charger Recommendations

[Kybear]

I bought a new bank of 4 FLA duracell GC2 6V batteries to be configured in 24V mainly just because they were cheap and I won't pull at night much. My solar system is just for prepping now and after I get a fence up and my neighborhood association can't see them I'm going to put up 500 off-grid panels. (I have a tracer 30A mppt and a go power 1500 pure sine inverter and a couple of IDK 245W panels at 32V)

My request is for AC charger recommendations. I've only got $450 in them from Sam's, but I'd like to make them last. I'm also perfectly fine with arranging in 12V for wall charging and re-arranging if the power goes out if it will save me a few bucks.
-Will a 12V tender handle 4 6V batteries at 215 AHR / 5100wh total. I don't mind if they charge slowly.
-Is it worth it to pay up? Maybe get one with the desulfator built in?
I'll pay up some if it makes any difference, but would rather stay <$100 since I don't have much in them.
Any recommendations appreciated!

Other questions
-Is the distilled water from the grocery store OK to refill? I know they use a chemical process rather than true distillation.
-Should batteries be re-arranged periodically?
-I've heard about equalizeing but I'm not sure what that is.

[SunEagle]

I bought a new bank of 4 FLA duracell GC2 6V batteries to be configured in 24V mainly just because they were cheap and I won't pull at night much. My solar system is just for prepping now and after I get a fence up and my neighborhood association can't see them I'm going to put up 500 off-grid panels. (I have a tracer 30A mppt and a go power 1500 pure sine inverter and a couple of IDK 245W panels at 32V)

My request is for AC charger recommendations. I've only got $450 in them from Sam's, but I'd like to make them last. I'm also perfectly fine with arranging in 12V for wall charging and re-arranging if the power goes out if it will save me a few bucks.
-Will a 12V tender handle 4 6V batteries at 215 AHR / 5100wh total. I don't mind if they charge slowly.
-Is it worth it to pay up? Maybe get one with the desulfator built in?
I'll pay up some if it makes any difference, but would rather stay <$100 since I don't have much in them.
Any recommendations appreciated!

Other questions
-Is the distilled water from the grocery store OK to refill? I know they use a chemical process rather than true distillation.
-Should batteries be re-arranged periodically?
-I've heard about equalizeing but I'm not sure what that is.

While I do not own one I have heard others talk about the Optimate 6 as being a very good and reliable charger for all types of batteries.

[inetdog]

Reverse osmosis purified water should be OK. No salts or organics left.
De-ionized water would not have the seriously damaging dissolved salts, but could still contain various organic molecules which might get weird when dumped into an acid electrolyte.

Actual distilled is the gold standard.

Some have suggested filtered rain water, but that could still be acidic and contain harmful ions.

[Sunking]

Devils Advocate

I am going to be the Devil's Advocate for a moment. Ask yourself:

Where does this end and where do I want to go?

Are you looking for just something to maintain the batteries at a specific voltage and capacity? What I am driving at is think about the future and purpose. If you are looking for something you can use on any battery type Now and in the Future, such chargers exist. They are costly but work at any Battery Voltage from 1.2 volts to 144 volts using any charging algorithm you want programmed. Will cost you $700/900 for a 1500 watt model.

A step down from there is all the rage these days and that is 3-Stage plus EQ. Come in all voltages and current which is the down-fall of them. You buy a 24 volt 30 amp model and you are stuck with it and limited to only 24 volt 240 to 360 AH battery. Pretty much a Uni-Tasker and using a level playing field of 1500 watts or 24 volts @ 60 amps around $300/500. FWIW 3-Stage Charge Controllers on solar is as worthless as tits on a boar.

The Devil is Pb and LFP for that matter are almost identical in charging methods called algorithms using Constant Current/Constant Voltage. The fastest way to charge either battery is to push Constant Current into the battery until it reaches 90% SOC. From an electronic design POV, it is extremely easy and inexpensive to build a charger for Pb or LFP. It takes 5 electronic components to make a charger. They are nothing more than a simple DC Power Supply with a Voltage and Current Regulator which is all done in one simple 3-Pin package you buy for a buck. So for a Solar user or other such Uni-Taskers your priority is fast and you can get that cheap. They are called FLOAT CHARGERS. For your CC set Bulk = Absorb=FLOAT = 2.45 vpc. Since speed is the name of the game you are going to want or try to get at least C/8 and do not go below C/10 current rating. So if you have a 400 AH battery you want 50 amps, and no less than 40 amps. You might even be able to go higher if you check with your manufacture maximum charge rates. A few go as high as C/6, but check.

[Kybear]

I am going to be the Devil's Advocate for a moment. Ask yourself:

Where does this end and where do I want to go?

Are you looking for just something to maintain the batteries at a specific voltage and capacity? What I am driving at is think about the future and purpose. If you are looking for something you can use on any battery type Now and in the Future, such chargers exist. They are costly but work at any Battery Voltage from 1.2 volts to 144 volts using any charging algorithm you want programmed. Will cost you $700/900 for a 1500 watt model.

A step down from there is all the rage these days and that is 3-Stage plus EQ. Come in all voltages and current which is the down-fall of them. You buy a 24 volt 30 amp model and you are stuck with it and limited to only 24 volt 240 to 360 AH battery. Pretty much a Uni-Tasker and using a level playing field of 1500 watts or 24 volts @ 60 amps around $300/500. FWIW 3-Stage Charge Controllers on solar is as worthless as tits on a boar.

The Devil is Pb and LFP for that matter are almost identical in charging methods called algorithms using Constant Current/Constant Voltage. The fastest way to charge either battery is to push Constant Current into the battery until it reaches 90% SOC. From an electronic design POV, it is extremely easy and inexpensive to build a charger for Pb or LFP. It takes 5 electronic components to make a charger. They are nothing more than a simple DC Power Supply with a Voltage and Current Regulator which is all done in one simple 3-Pin package you buy for a buck. So for a Solar user or other such Uni-Taskers your priority is fast and you can get that cheap. They are called FLOAT CHARGERS. For your CC set Bulk = Absorb=FLOAT = 2.45 vpc. Since speed is the name of the game you are going to want or try to get at least C/8 and do not go below C/10 current rating. So if you have a 400 AH battery you want 50 amps, and no less than 40 amps. You might even be able to go higher if you check with your manufacture maximum charge rates. A few go as high as C/6, but check.

I just want the batteries tended on the AC plug and occasionally charged from, maybe 50%. Def. not paying > $200 or buying a dedicated system. When you say speed is the name of the game, & don't go below C/10, do you mean for battery longevity purposes, or just efficiency? Personally I don't care that they charge slowly when plugged in the wall, and would prefer it if that's the "healthiest" option for the battery. With 215AH batteries, the C/10 min would be 21.5A. I know they won't be tended at 21.5A, but are you saying that the regular charge should be charged at >21 for the health of the battery? Thanks for the response.

[Kybear]

Optimate

While I do not own one I have heard others talk about the Optimate 6 as being a very good and reliable charger for all types of batteries.

Thanks for the recommendation, it got me looking in a good direction. It looks like the charger is 12V and I won't get the all the benefits with 2 6V's in series. The optimate 5 will charge 6V, but won't go as high as 215AH capacity. I still might get the optimate 6 if I can make it work though, it looks awesome. I wish I had tried a repair on my wife's battery that started cranking slow after 2 years before I replaced it. I found a tech number and am going to call them tomorrow and see what they recommend.

[PNjunction]

I just want the batteries tended on the AC plug and occasionally charged from, maybe 50%. Def. not paying > $200 or buying a dedicated system. When you say speed is the name of the game, & don't go below C/10, do you mean for battery longevity purposes, or just efficiency? Personally I don't care that they charge slowly when plugged in the wall, and would prefer it if that's the "healthiest" option for the battery. With 215AH batteries, the C/10 min would be 21.5A. I know they won't be tended at 21.5A, but are you saying that the regular charge should be charged at >21 for the health of the battery? Thanks for the response.

For that kind of budget you have a few options. My first thought for a decent 24v charger that would do a fine job of charging and then maintaining on float would be the 24v Samlex SEC-2415UL.

http://www.samlexamerica.com/products/ProductDetail.aspx?pid=174

You will have to supply your own wiring from the charger to the batteries. GREAT documentation which you can read to decide if this is up your alley.

A bit lower down the scale would be the NOCO G15000 or 26000. Both have internal fans, so if you need hospital-room quiet, then these are out.

The NOCO has *both* 12 and 24v charging. Note that it is designed primarily as an automotive charger with "float monitoring" and not a constant float. To do that, and ONLY if you are using it in a 12v mode, you could engage the 13.6v "power supply" or "maintenance" mode. It also has a high-voltage desulfator (manually engaged to ensure you know what you are doing. Do NOT confuse this with an EQ for fla, which is usually on 15.6v).

Note that these are consumer units, and like all consumer stuff, can have consumer problems. Like my brand new 15000 that had faulty quick-disconnect connectors. Had to cut them off and use my own after a lot of head scratching even when fuses were good. Stuff happens. I still like them for the configurability.

The reason I mention these higher amperage chargers is that if you DO get caught with a 50% DOD with those batteries, the healthiest way to charge is NOT to use a small amperage tender. YES, you *might* get away with this once in awhile, and as much as I love my Optimate 6, my preference with batteries that large is not to use a small tender UNLESS they are fully or nearly fully charged.

[thastinger]

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-GBCPRO-Vehicle-Battery-Charger/dp/B005DKIIJW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1442491544&sr=8-2&keywords=golf+cart+battery+charger

I've used this for a couple of years now without issue. It will charge 6,12,24,36 & 48V. It doesn't have an "EQ" setting but it will top off your batteries fine. I use it for the EQ cycle on my 48V bank. I hook it and the gen up early in the AM, let this get the bank fully charged then switch to the panels and CC to finish the EQ.

[lkruper]

http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-GBCPRO...attery+charger

I've used this for a couple of years now without issue. It will charge 6,12,24,36 & 48V. It doesn't have an "EQ" setting but it will top off your batteries fine. I use it for the EQ cycle on my 48V bank. I hook it and the gen up early in the AM, let this get the bank fully charged then switch to the panels and CC to finish the EQ.

Not for sale in California

[inetdog]

Not for sale in California

I wonder why.

[SunEagle]

I wonder why.

Maybe the ammo magazine holds too many rounds.

[Willy T]

I think they have to have a automatic ( 80hr ?? ) cut off now. All the portable chargers / with clips or plugs ( non- commercial ), makers have introduced new models in the last couple years to meet the standard.

http://www.energy.ca.gov/2012publications/CEC-400-2012-FS/CEC-400-2012-FS-002.pdf

Starting in 2013 all non-commercial battery chargers manufactured after February and sold in California must conform to the new “Appliance Efficiency Program” in coordination with the California Energy Commission.
Mike Prelec Sr. CEO stated, “Battery Tender® has been supplying high-efficiency battery chargers for over 10 years to the European market with the CE certification. We have spent the better part of a year redesigning our units to meet the new stringent standards of both California and Europe. The units have also been re-qualified by Underwriters Labs and/or ETL.”

[thastinger]

Not for sale in California

Many things aren't "available" in the People's Republic of Mexifornia but if you go to ebay and get it they usually aren't as strict on the restrictions as amazon is.

[SunEagle]

Many things aren't "available" in the People's Republic of Mexifornia but if you go to ebay and get it they usually aren't as strict on the restrictions as amazon is.

I think Willy hit the nail on the head. CA has mandated to reduce their consumption to become more reliable on RE generation, so why not put a regulation requiring all electrical appliances to meet a higher efficiency standard.

[bcroe]

My own experience is battery chargers tend to be inefficient, with bad power factors. The worst
are the lower powered maintainers, that are on 24/7. Unfortunately the cheap ones use almost
as much power at final float, as when putting out max current. Bruce Roe