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  • Solar upgrade

    Thanks for having me on your forum. I have read the stickies pertaining to my situation and think I am ready to ask my question. please excuse my ignorance of the math and terms you guys used in there. I work out of a very remote cabin in the Maine wilderness. I have been here 10 years and the solar system was here when I arrived on scene. The panels, 4 of them, have no tags or anything on them for me to relay to you what they are or rating, the charge controller reads 76vdc input at full sunlight. They do have a BP symbol on them. I have attached pictures of the panels if that helps at all. These panels go to an Outback Power Systems charge controller model FM60 150vdc, I also attached a picture of the parameter panel that is on the controller. This controller charges 8-6vdc Trojan T2 batteries (new in May) totaling 48v. these batteries run into a Cotek ST series Pure Sine Wave inverter mod ST2500-148. This system worked great, I was running a deep well water pump, 6 led 110v lights ( never more than 2 on at once ) and a couple outlets for charging hand held radio batteries. My problem starts here, the higher ups had a Hughsnet satellite internet system installed at my cabin and all the electronics that go along with it ie; computer, printer, modem, wifi router and 4 more outlets to run everything. Now the system can't keep up. From the info I have given my question is will the charge controller handle more panels( I have access to 4 more) then bump the batteries up to 60vdc by adding two more in series then swapping out the invertor for a 4500w, one that will take 60vdc instead of 48vdc like I have. So sorry for the long post. Please advise. I hope the pics go through.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Originally posted by trev View Post
    Thanks for having me on your forum. I have read the stickies pertaining to my situation and think I am ready to ask my question. please excuse my ignorance of the math and terms you guys used in there. I work out of a very remote cabin in the Maine wilderness. I have been here 10 years and the solar system was here when I arrived on scene. The panels, 4 of them, have no tags or anything on them for me to relay to you what they are or rating, the charge controller reads 76vdc input at full sunlight. They do have a BP symbol on them. I have attached pictures of the panels if that helps at all. These panels go to an Outback Power Systems charge controller model FM60 150vdc, I also attached a picture of the parameter panel that is on the controller. This controller charges 8-6vdc Trojan T2 batteries (new in May) totaling 48v. these batteries run into a Cotek ST series Pure Sine Wave inverter mod ST2500-148. This system worked great, I was running a deep well water pump, 6 led 110v lights ( never more than 2 on at once ) and a couple outlets for charging hand held radio batteries. My problem starts here, the higher ups had a Hughsnet satellite internet system installed at my cabin and all the electronics that go along with it ie; computer, printer, modem, wifi router and 4 more outlets to run everything. Now the system can't keep up. From the info I have given my question is will the charge controller handle more panels( I have access to 4 more) then bump the batteries up to 60vdc by adding two more in series then swapping out the invertor for a 4500w, one that will take 60vdc instead of 48vdc like I have. So sorry for the long post. Please advise. I hope the pics go through.
    I am guessing you have 4 X 9 cell panels, 36 cells maybe 3" X 6" for 19 V and 4A, 76 watts. Basically 4
    12V panels in series to support 48V. Not able to adequately support 60V. If so you could parallel some
    other panel strings having total 144 cells for more current, or just replace the panels with much larger.
    But first you need to do an energy audit, to figure out where energy went when the system worked,
    and how much more is involved now that it doesn't. Once that is worked out, adequate equipment
    can be determined.

    The computer equipment doesn't sound like a huge load, must all of it be operational continuously?
    Just turning on what you need, when you need it, could help. My printer is rarely on. the modem is
    unused, my laptop needs minimal power. How much power for the radio, can it be turned on & off?
    Do realize, much equipment has power modules (internal or external) that are always on, even
    when the equipment switch is OFF. I put these on the circuit with the room light switch, so they
    are REALLY off when I leave.

    Find out just what the instantaneous and cumulative consumption is. Bruce Roe

    Comment


    • #3
      I will do an energy audit. The deep well water pump is 250' down and I am not raising to get the #s. is there a ball park figure I can use instead. it is a 1/2 hp pump. the rest of the equip I can get at. Thanks. The pump is the largest draw of power. Come Oct. I'll be running the generator all the time, I don't like the generator.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by trev View Post
        I will do an energy audit. The deep well water pump is 250' down and I am not raising to get the #s. is there a ball park figure I can use instead. it is a 1/2 hp pump. the rest of the equip I can get at. Thanks. The pump is the largest draw of power. Come Oct. I'll be running the generator all the time, I don't like the generator.
        A 1/2hp motor might draw 0.5 KW. There is a starting surge which your inverter is handling, and
        is short. The duty cycle of the pump must be very low, for your system to have worked. If the
        pump ran 1/4 hour a day, the energy would be 0.25H X 0.5KW = 0.125 KWH a day.

        Adding panels will increase current and help deal with minor clouding. You could do a lot with
        perhaps 5 times capacity modern panels. But the maximum current needs to be within the
        charge controller capability and not exceeding battery maximum charge rate. Orienting panels
        east, south, and west can increase total energy without raising peak current, by working for a
        longer "sun" day. You could add parallel strings of panels (144 total cells) facing east and west
        right now without changing anything else for perhaps a 30% boost.

        Once you have numbers, someone who uses batteries can recommend specific equipment.

        Cleaning up any "vampire" loads which waste power 24/7 might help a lot. For example
        my printer power module used 5W in "OFF", thats 0.12 KWH a day. Knowing the remaining
        large loads, you might be able to just run them along with the generator a short time each
        day, or under excellent sun. Batteries can't survive without a generator sometimes. Bruce Roe

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by trev View Post
          I will do an energy audit. The deep well water pump is 250' down and I am not raising to get the #s. is there a ball park figure I can use instead. it is a 1/2 hp pump. the rest of the equip I can get at. Thanks. The pump is the largest draw of power. Come Oct. I'll be running the generator all the time, I don't like the generator.
          My 1/2hp pump consumes 1,000w while pumping 160' lift. Standard deep well pump. I have a large inverter (XW6048) which solves starting surge issues.
          Assume about 6Kw of starting surge, or hire an electrician with a PEAK HOLD AC AMPMETER (about a $400 piece of gear) to test it. Or maybe just plan on running the generator if you need to pump water ?

          Adding more batteries to make a 60V battery bank would work, but I don't know of ANY 60V inverters
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
            My 1/2hp pump consumes 1,000w while pumping 160' lift. Standard deep well pump. I have a large inverter (XW6048) which solves starting surge issues.
            Assume about 6Kw of starting surge, or hire an electrician with a PEAK HOLD AC AMPMETER (about a $400 piece of gear) to test it. Or maybe just plan on running the generator if you need to pump water ?
            That is why we measure things. That means the motor is only 38% efficient, is that a characteristic of well
            pumps? Is that pure power, or is some actually reactive? No need to remove the pump to measure it,
            meter it from the top.

            Anyway, his current inverter is managing to start it. Perhaps a big water tank could get the run down to
            once a day. Bruce Roe

            Comment


            • #7
              All good Ideas, thank you for posting them. We have contacted a solar energy contractor that has done work for us at other stations, he will be coming in to do an energy audit and proposal for an upgrade. Thanks again for the input, I'll keep updating what direction we go with this.

              Comment


              • #8
                You said "Trojan T2 batteries"...which model? I think all of them are at least 210Ah@ the 20hr rate so you would need 1200W of panels to properly match that battery bank (could be slightly more or less depending on location). It doesn't look like you have anywhere near that from the pic.
                1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by thastinger View Post
                  you said "trojan t2 batteries"...which model? I think all of them are at least 210ah@ the 20hr rate so you would need 1200w of panels to properly match that battery bank (could be slightly more or less depending on location). It doesn't look like you have anywhere near that from the pic.
                  t105

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So it sounds to me that you have about a third of the panels you need to charge that battery bank. I believe the panels you have are 80W panels.
                    1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

                    Comment

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