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  • Are these batteries good enough?

    Hi everyone, I have two of these batteries, my intention is to power some lights in the backyard. I bought a Harbor Freight 45W solar kit a few years ago but I'm planning to get this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Grape-Sol...ot|BackInStock.

    Any comments will be appreciated.
    Thanks


  • #2
    why do you want to do this?
    1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

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    • #3
      Well first I don't have electricity in the backyard, second I would like to learn everything about solar. Beside lighting up the backyard my intention is to create a backup system to charge phones, CB and HAM radios, etc. during a power outage. I went through couple of power outages without having any source of power to charge anything (lesson learned). In the future I would like to build something powerful enough to run the house lights, some small kitchen appliances and a PC or laptop. It will be interesting to build some portable backup system you can transport in your vehicle for an emergency situation.

      That's all.......................

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      • #4
        it will run a light for a while. larger load = shorter runtime
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Gilcano View Post
          Well first I don't have electricity in the backyard, second I would like to learn everything about solar.
          Those batteries will do ok for a "learner set". Perfect because if/when you make a mistake like we all do at some point, you won't feel bad about having to recycle them.

          To actually learn, then you'll want to gather more tools:

          1) Good quality digital multimeter
          2) Hydrometer for measuring the Specific Gravity of the cells since you are using flooded batts
          3) Kill-A-Watt meter for measuring ac powered stuff
          4) Clamp-on ammeter

          I highly suggest an AC charger at this point too. For a single battery, a 10-15A Samlex or Iota would be nice to have to ensure you start off on the right foot.

          The key to success is knowing what your load requirements are *over time*. Measure your power needed times hours. This will determine the capacity size of a battery you need, and keep in mind that you DOUBLE that requirement since we don't want to take a battery any lower than half-way charged, aka 50% DOD.

          THEN, you figure out if you have enough solar-insolation hours to put back 10-15% more than you took out, since charging is not perfectly efficient. Note that for any appreciable discharge on the cells you purchased, the min/max current charge ratings are C/12 to C/8, where C is the ah rating of the battery. In your case, with both of those batteries, you'd want at least 4X the panel power you envision going with the grape panels now. Or, at least 200 watts per battery if you want to just treat each battery on a single basis - one solely for lighting, and perhaps one solely for your commo needs.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gilcano View Post
            In the future I would like to build something powerful enough to run the house lights, some small kitchen appliances and a PC or laptop. .
            OK then Solar is not for you. You are talking 10's of thousands of dollars in battery replacement cost every few years. Don't be a silly ole ham operator, the stuff does not work like you think it does. Anything you take off-grid will cost you some 10 times more for power the rest of your short life. Used in Emergencies like you plan, that goes up to 20 to 100 times more than buying it from the POCO.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #7
              Originally posted by PNjunction View Post
              Those batteries will do ok for a "learner set". Perfect because if/when you make a mistake like we all do at some point, you won't feel bad about having to recycle them.

              To actually learn, then you'll want to gather more tools:

              1) Good quality digital multimeter
              2) Hydrometer for measuring the Specific Gravity of the cells since you are using flooded batts
              3) Kill-A-Watt meter for measuring ac powered stuff
              4) Clamp-on ammeter
              Yes, actually you need to know that I'm a beginner in this topic I got the batteries at a very cheap price so I want to experiment with them. I connected the solar panels (45W Harbor Freight kit) with the controller to one of the batteries and it charged it no problem, at night I plugged the lights that came with the kit and they worked fine as you going to see in the picture. I know everybody calls for AGM batteries and top of the line Solar Panels but I don't want/need to expend that kind the money right now. As I said I'm a beginner and I need to learn first so if I make a mistake I won't trash expensive batteries like you mentioned above. On the tools subject I'm already have a good digital multimeter but need to get the Hydrometer and the Kill-A-Watt.



              I highly suggest an AC charger at this point too. For a single battery, a 10-15A Samlex or Iota would be nice to have to ensure you start off on the right foot.
              I do have AC charger. I don't know what Samlex or Iota are? Those are Solar Panel brands or manufacturers?

              The key to success is knowing what your load requirements are *over time*. Measure your power needed times hours. This will determine the capacity size of a battery you need, and keep in mind that you DOUBLE that requirement since we don't want to take a battery any lower than half-way charged, aka 50% DOD.

              THEN, you figure out if you have enough solar-insolation hours to put back 10-15% more than you took out, since charging is not perfectly efficient. Note that for any appreciable discharge on the cells you purchased, the min/max current charge ratings are C/12 to C/8, where C is the ah rating of the battery. In your case, with both of those batteries, you'd want at least 4X the panel power you envision going with the grape panels now. Or, at least 200 watts per battery if you want to just treat each battery on a single basis - one solely for lighting, and perhaps one solely for your commo needs.
              You mean I need 4 - 100W grape panels for those two batteries? That is what I have in mind, 4 of the 100W panels connected to two batteries, them I'll try some other better batteries like 12V 100Ah SOLAR WIND AGM SLA DEEP CYCLE VRLA BATTERY. I seen videos in Youtube of people that started with 400 Watts them grow to 800W, !000W and so on and they did it at their own pace. Not everybody have 10 grands to set up a top of the line OFF-GRID system right from the beginning.

              Thanks for your comments and help

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                it will run a light for a while. larger load = shorter runtime
                Yes, thanks for your comments

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gilcano View Post
                  I do have AC charger. I don't know what Samlex or Iota are? Those are Solar Panel brands or manufacturers?
                  Those are charger / power supply / inverter manufacturers. You don't find them at the auto-parts store.

                  If you have an ac charger already that's great. Just beware that auto-parts store chargers don't always do the best job. For instance, "speed chargers" that you commonly see on the racks can be too agressive for batteries that are in good condition already and merely need a charge. Most of the models I tested hung at 80% charge, and I found out why when monitoring with my own gear - they had gone into a 15.5v high voltage mode at the *beginning* of the absorb cycle and just gassed the hell out of good batteries that didn't need this agressive behavior since they weren't neglected garage-queens or batteries killed by parasitic loads left on for a few days.

                  That is what I have in mind, 4 of the 100W panels connected to two batteries,
                  That will work. The problem of balance may come if those inexpensive batteries vary in age, capacity, or even quality of manufacturing. The hydrometer and other gear may allow you to tackle this issue up front, but if you want to just learn, perhaps consider using only ONE battery to experiment with, and keep the other around as a hot-spare.

                  That way, issues of balance won't be a major concern, and will allow you to use only TWO panels on one battery at a time, lessening cost. And now it makes it easier to concentrate on getting your power-budget, solar insolation, and other issues more finely tuned before tacking a paralleled battery setup.

                  Normally we try to avoid paralleled batteries if at all possible, and for someone just starting out, I definitely recommend against that.

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