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  • Question about Morningstar MMPT Controller

    Hi everyone,

    My parents have a cabin with a solar system in it and they do not know the ins and outs of the system. It was installed by another cabin owner on the beach ...

    After upgrading to 4 panels they had to get a new solar controller and got the Morningstar MMPT 45. Trying to diagnose some things was a real pain and the guy that did the install insn't a whole lot of help.

    I ordered and installed the digital meter for the controller so we could get some stats on the system.

    My question is, on the display it shows value for WATTAGE. I am assuming that this is the incoming wattage being generated by the panels. If that is the case should it be close to the wattage of what the panels are? If it is supposed to show close to the wattage of the panels at peak time and isn't does the voltage of the panels matter for what is shown on the display?

    Thanks in advance, the panels are on a pole mount and roof mount and I haven't wanted to climb up there yet as they have no spec sheets on their panels.

  • #2
    Originally posted by kilowatt View Post
    Hi everyone,

    My parents have a cabin with a solar system in it and they do not know the ins and outs of the system. It was installed by another cabin owner on the beach ...

    After upgrading to 4 panels they had to get a new solar controller and got the Morningstar MMPT 45. Trying to diagnose some things was a real pain and the guy that did the install insn't a whole lot of help.

    I ordered and installed the digital meter for the controller so we could get some stats on the system.

    My question is, on the display it shows value for WATTAGE. I am assuming that this is the incoming wattage being generated by the panels. If that is the case should it be close to the wattage of what the panels are? If it is supposed to show close to the wattage of the panels at peak time and isn't does the voltage of the panels matter for what is shown on the display?

    Thanks in advance, the panels are on a pole mount and roof mount and I haven't wanted to climb up there yet as they have no spec sheets on their panels.
    I'm not familiar with that charge controller in particular, but I believe it should be showing the wattage being generated by the panels. Theoretically it should be relatively close to what the total wattage of the panels is IF the sun is hitting them directly at the peak time of day. There will be some loss associated depending on how they are wired, the length of the cable from the panels to the controller and its gauge. To be sure of the panels' stats you may need to climb up there to see . Or at least get the make and model of them so you can look it up online.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was afraid of that! I was concerned the 2 additional panels were not doing anything or very little as the amps incoming pretty closely matches what the old controller said. The guy that installed them said he did it in parallel i think so he told me to just double the numbers. Seems like an odd thing to have to do with a decent controller.

      I will have to climb up there and take a look. Is there a "best" way to wire two pairs of same panels? 2 are a couple years and 2 are a year old.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kilowatt View Post
        I ordered and installed the digital meter for the controller so we could get some stats on the system.

        My question is, on the display it shows value for WATTAGE. I am assuming that this is the incoming wattage being generated by the panels.
        If this is the TS-M-2, the manual shows a display that is all output charge values, not input. It shows voltage (battery), current and power (charge). I don't see where the input power is displayed. Even if it were, I don't understand why "doubling" would be needed. The current is what it is. Adding arrays in parallel should approximately double the current, assuming no shading and the same kind of panel.

        Comment


        • #5
          I was thinking the same thing, the controller should show what it is. I shouldnt have to do anything.

          In the manual it says exactly that, the battery values. However this value changes throughout the day in relation to the input amps it shows. When the sun goes down the value reads 0 watts and 0 amps. During peak day it reads 20 amps and 300 watts approximately.

          I think the original panels are sun electronics 210 watt. So those values are pretty close. The other 2 panels are newer and should be close in size. So i would expect to see something around 600 watts.

          Comment


          • #6
            re Panels.
            Your new panels need to closely match your old panel Voltage Vmp & Amperage Imp spec. Watts will therefor be close, but you CANNOT depend on watts to make the match, you could have high volt panels wilth low amps, same wattage, and tied to your old panels, be COMPLETELY ineffective.

            So you must read the sticker on the back of the old and new panels, Vmp & Imp should match within 5% or you will have trouble.

            Get the binoculars or a camera with zoom lens to read the stickers.

            When we have the specs for both types of panels, we can advise how to wire and what to expect.

            PS: The TS-MPPT-60 has a web server in it that provides much more info than the front panel meter kit. If you are still able to exchange, I would strongly suggest doing that, send the meter and -45 back and get the -60
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • #7
              I was able to get the specs on the sticker for one set with binoculars. I will have to go on the roof to see the other ones. Once i have everything i will get back to you guys.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok I climbed up on the roof this morning to get the info off the panels.

                There are 2 panels mounted on a pole that are identical, these are the oldest ones and before adding the 2 additional panels the system seems to generate about 22 amps of power in peak sun. Last year they thought they needed more power so they had 2 additional panels installed on the roof. The 2 new panels are identical, but different than original 2 panels on the pole.

                When they added the 2 new panels to the roof is when the guy told them to change the controller too, this is where the Morningstar controller came from. When they did this upgrade it had no monitor on it, so we couldn't see what it was doing easily. I am not very familiar with electrical tools yet. So I bought the meter and installed it on the controller and it's showing at peak sun that we're generating about 20-22 amps and a new thing on the meter is a wattage reading of about 300 watts in peak sun.

                That to me initially indicates the other 2 new panels aren't doing anything or very little. Now I realize you can go series and parallel with all of this and without pulling all the tape off what he did I cannot get that info. I am hoping the monitor i put on there will help diagnose what is going on instead.

                Does that sound right that 2 additional panels don't seem to be contributing?

                Pole Mount Panels
                Maximum Power (Pmax) 210 Watts
                Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp) 18.3 Volts
                Maximum Power Current (Imp) 11.48 Amps
                Open-Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.8 Volts
                Short-Circuit Current (Isc) 12.11 Amps

                Roof Mount Panels
                Maximum Power (Pmax) 150 Watts
                Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp) 17.9 Volts
                Maximum Power Current (Imp) 8.38 Amps
                Open-Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.41 Volts
                Short-Circuit Current (Isc) 9.29 Amps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Please keep firmly in mind that unless the battery bank is discharged low enough that the CC is in Bulk mode and the batteries are able to accept a high charging current, the output you see from the CC may just depend on how much current the batteries can take and not be affected by any increase in panel power.
                  One way to check for this is to turn on a major load and see if the current from the CC increases. If it does, your are seeing a battery limited current and not a panel limited current.
                  SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kilowatt View Post
                    Ok I climbed up on the roof this morning to get the info off the panels.

                    There are 2 panels mounted on a pole that are identical, these are the oldest ones and before adding the 2 additional panels the system seems to generate about 22 amps of power in peak sun. Last year they thought they needed more power so they had 2 additional panels installed on the roof. The 2 new panels are identical, but different than original 2 panels on the pole.

                    When they added the 2 new panels to the roof is when the guy told them to change the controller too, this is where the Morningstar controller came from. When they did this upgrade it had no monitor on it, so we couldn't see what it was doing easily. I am not very familiar with electrical tools yet. So I bought the meter and installed it on the controller and it's showing at peak sun that we're generating about 20-22 amps and a new thing on the meter is a wattage reading of about 300 watts in peak sun.

                    That to me initially indicates the other 2 new panels aren't doing anything or very little. Now I realize you can go series and parallel with all of this and without pulling all the tape off what he did I cannot get that info. I am hoping the monitor i put on there will help diagnose what is going on instead.

                    Does that sound right that 2 additional panels don't seem to be contributing?

                    Pole Mount Panels
                    Maximum Power (Pmax) 210 Watts
                    Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp) 18.3 Volts
                    Maximum Power Current (Imp) 11.48 Amps
                    Open-Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.8 Volts
                    Short-Circuit Current (Isc) 12.11 Amps

                    Roof Mount Panels
                    Maximum Power (Pmax) 150 Watts
                    Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp) 17.9 Volts
                    Maximum Power Current (Imp) 8.38 Amps
                    Open-Circuit Voltage (Voc) 22.41 Volts
                    Short-Circuit Current (Isc) 9.29 Amps
                    The Vmp of those two different panels are about 3% apart but their Imp is over 25% which is probably the problem. I am not sure if there is a way to wire all 4 panels to that Morningstar CC to get the full wattage output of the panels.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      so how many/what panels do you have ?

                      2 oldest on the roof
                      2 newer ones on the roof
                      2 brand new ones on the pole ?
                      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                        The Vmp of those two different panels are about 3% apart but their Imp is over 25% which is probably the problem. I am not sure if there is a way to wire all 4 panels to that Morningstar CC to get the full wattage output of the panels.
                        If he put all of them in series he will has problem, but if he put 2 old panel in series and 2 new one in series then parallel the 2 strings, he won't have any problem, also if he put all of them in parallel he won't have any problem except the low voltage and large wires.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
                          If he put all of them in series he will has problem, but if he put 2 old panel in series and 2 new one in series then parallel the 2 strings, he won't have any problem, also if he put all of them in parallel he won't have any problem except the low voltage and large wires.
                          Maybe. Those 150watt panels have much lower Imp ratings so I'm not sure how the CC will handle it. Of course with a Morningstar it might not make any difference.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kilowatt View Post
                            I was thinking the same thing, the controller should show what it is. I shouldnt have to do anything.

                            In the manual it says exactly that, the battery values. However this value changes throughout the day in relation to the input amps it shows. When the sun goes down the value reads 0 watts and 0 amps. During peak day it reads 20 amps and 300 watts approximately.
                            If it is showing charge values into the battery, 0 watts and 0 volts at dusk is generally what you would expect. No charge current and no power into the battery, because the panels are generating no power. The mode of the controller (float, absorb, etc) factors in to what you see as well.

                            20A and 300W means the voltage is about 15V.

                            Comment

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