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  • #31
    Originally posted by justcerfin View Post
    So I'm looking to buy a solar panel kit and having an someone install it for me. To give everyone a general idea of what is all entailed here, the following is what my house is like and what I plan to have done.

    I was quoted just above $14K for 27 285W solarworld panels, including Enphase M250 micro inverters, inverter cables, racking, roof hooks, nuts and bolts, delivery ect. Not included was wiring and conduit, permits. To me, this sounds like a great deal compared to some of the other quotes and I don't have any real questions here. Its all being mounted on Spanish S type cement tiles. Roofs plans for submitting to get a permit were an extra $99.

    My real question is the installer quotes I have received. I received a quote for about $10K for the installation which includes permits and up to PGE connection ( I live in central CA). The other quote I received today was for basically the same thing but also included wire and conduit, permits and up to PGE connection. This was quoted just above $15K. Is it me or is this crazy. I was thinking the cost was going to be about $3-4K at the most. (PS. I'm a newb and have no idea on installation prices.) Is that a fair price or are they just being greedy. I waited 7 days to get a quote which was basically 27 panels@285W=7695KW. The company charges $2 per KW installation. 7695KW X $2 = $15,390. That price honestly seems ridiculous to me. Seems like I could hire 4 electricians @80 an hour for 2, 8 hour days for much cheaper. I looked up solar photovoltaic installer hourly rates in my area and they area about $20.81 an hour. Is the company which quoted me being greedy or I'm just way out of touch with this stuff?

    Any thoughts anyone. I'm looking for ideas on how to reduce the installation price and also get this project done without burning down my house.. Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated. Just fyi, I live near Fresno, CA. Thanks for the help..
    I am in similar boat – I have performed my system design, ordered American made materials (self-imposed requirement), and I will use experienced solar roofer to install my solar equipment on the second floor. You have a choice of performing some of the work yourself.

    For me my solar adventure started last year when I got a few quotes from top installer companies with the cheapest one being $4.5/W installed. All of 3 quotes were using non-USA panels, and were charging premium for them. I decided to get into solar, and I do believe in solar having bright future, and I to me solar panels make house better looking. I enjoy tapping my SMA inverter at the end of the day to see how it did, and I like analyzing pv performance data.

    This is my second time around performing solar on my own home. On the first install I chose to do everything myself so I gain the experience on how to do the job right, and how to verify that the job is done right if I don’t do it myself. I read NEC 2011 electrical code, and I had my C-10 electrical contractor friend go over main panel safety and share tips on conduit bending, and I checked with him my understanding of grounding code. I enjoyed hanging the inverter, installing the AC disconnect, installing Solar C/B in the main, and bending / installing conduit. My wife liked feeding the wires. I invited friends to “haul my 8 panels to the roof” party – beer/pizza/wings provided after the job. Didn’t enjoyed much roof attachment install in the sun – but I did make sure that every lag screw hit the 2x4, and every attachment was double flashed.

    This time around I am performing only the work I enjoyed doing first time – installing inverter, disconnects, conduit, circuit breaker, but I find a roofer to install attachments on my second floor on Spanish tile roof. Regardless who performs my installation, I will go into my attic and double check that each lag screw hit the rafter, and that none of the rafters splintered, and I double check that flashing is properly done.

    The help I need this time is a roofer with solar experience. Note that a lot of roofers do not have solar experience. What you want is somebody who works / worked for a big solar company ( if worked then ask why he left).Does not need to be licensed contractor – but needs to have good work ethic, I needs to agree to my expectations – guaranteed rafter hit (I verify each one and help a few fix if needed), correctly double flash (I verify a few), and replace all cracked tile (I provide replacement). Also the help will sign:
    1) release of any liability due to personal injury
    2) release of subcontractor liability

    My project is 16 panels, 5.3kw. I estimate I need to hire 4 man-days of work, 48 hours total, and I will pay to pay $50 hour cash for an experienced solar installer who works for one the big companies and knows what he is doing, and less for less experienced help. Total $2500, or $0.5 per watt. Note – I will do a day’s work myself.

    I got a few numbers from installers who work for big solar companies and my first choice to have them install, but not through their company. Ultimately what matters is the person performing installation. I talked to them and they understand what needs to be done. I don’t need any warranty – just job done right and paying only for the job done right.

    Ultimately if you choose not to use a good company you need to be able to verify that the job is done right, and you will not get any warranty. I am a firm believer that paying more does not guarantee good installation, but you yourself can make sure the job is done right, and you don’t need to pay $200/hour to get a good installation.
    17xE20-327+SMA 5000
    6xSuniva 325+ABB micros

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    • #32
      I wish I could do all the stuff you did and if I had the knowledge with all the electrical stuff, I would definitely do all the work myself. I would take a large amount of self pride for having accomplished something like that. I agree with the statement of not needing a warranty if the job was done right and I plan to be involved in the project first hand. I know I'm not a solar installer or a roofer but I know if something looks like crap or is obviously wrong. Looks like I'm just going buy the parts and find and installer when I can. I have also volunteered with GridAlternatives.org They are a non-profit company which installs solar panels on low income houses. They teach the volunteers how to install panels in trade for free labor. I think I will learn a great deal and I like the idea of helping others get less dependent on the grid. Well gents, lets hope all goes well..

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      • #33
        Originally posted by justcerfin View Post
        I wish I could do all the stuff you did and if I had the knowledge with all the electrical stuff, I would definitely do all the work myself. I would take a large amount of self pride for having accomplished something like that. I agree with the statement of not needing a warranty if the job was done right and I plan to be involved in the project first hand. I know I'm not a solar installer or a roofer but I know if something looks like crap or is obviously wrong. Looks like I'm just going buy the parts and find and installer when I can. I have also volunteered with GridAlternatives.org They are a non-profit company which installs solar panels on low income houses. They teach the volunteers how to install panels in trade for free labor. I think I will learn a great deal and I like the idea of helping others get less dependent on the grid. Well gents, lets hope all goes well..
        That's an awesome opportunity for volunteering. I will see if I have those in my area as well. Nothing better than giving it back to the community while picking up a skill or two.
        17xE20-327+SMA 5000
        6xSuniva 325+ABB micros

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        • #34
          Originally posted by samotlietuvis View Post
          That's an awesome opportunity for volunteering. I will see if I have those in my area as well. Nothing better than giving it back to the community while picking up a skill or two.
          Sweet, I just got confirmed for 3 solar installations. I get to volunteer locally and get to learn more on installing solar panels. I have another guy doing a quote on just the installation part so hopefully I get to hear from him tomorrow and I'll see how it goes. If not, then maybe one of these guys I will be working with can do my install on the side for some extra money. Either way, I think this is the year for me and solar to finally get together )

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          • #35
            As a solar installer, I try to make a good business out of converting homes to clean, renewable power - and we try our best to max out the profitability of course. But I'm happy to help homeowners that want to save a buck however they can. Yes, most of the gravy in a solar install is in the markup on the equipment and this pays for the overhead on the business. But really, should not our priority in the solar industry be to make solar affordable for as many people as possible? If I can pay my crew to do a labor only job, it keeps them employed (especially helpful as a "low priority" job to fill in holes in the schedule), builds the referral network, and helps the cash flow. I don't worry about labor only jobs ruining the market. In reality, there are few people wanting this kind of arrangement. The main problem I have with this kind of deal, is the owner wants to make a lot of the design decisions (point, shoot, aim) and does them all wrong then wants us to fix it.
            BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

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            • #36
              Originally posted by solarix View Post
              As a solar installer, I try to make a good business out of converting homes to clean, renewable power - and we try our best to max out the profitability of course. But I'm happy to help homeowners that want to save a buck however they can. Yes, most of the gravy in a solar install is in the markup on the equipment and this pays for the overhead on the business. But really, should not our priority in the solar industry be to make solar affordable for as many people as possible? If I can pay my crew to do a labor only job, it keeps them employed (especially helpful as a "low priority" job to fill in holes in the schedule), builds the referral network, and helps the cash flow. I don't worry about labor only jobs ruining the market. In reality, there are few people wanting this kind of arrangement. The main problem I have with this kind of deal, is the owner wants to make a lot of the design decisions (point, shoot, aim) and does them all wrong then wants us to fix it.
              Half of the battle is getting the design to work. The kits generally don't take into account every thing that could come up.
              NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

              [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

              [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

              [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

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              • #37
                Originally posted by solarix View Post
                As a solar installer, I try to make a good business out of converting homes to clean, renewable power - and we try our best to max out the profitability of course.

                But I'm happy to help homeowners that want to save a buck however they can. Yes, most of the gravy in a solar install is in the markup on the equipment and this pays for the overhead on the business.
                It seems like you would be a rare exception to a rule, or am I too jaded? If most of the gravy is in the markup, and that pays the overhead... you see where I am going in my mind.

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                • #38
                  I must say that I got lucky to certain extent... Part of my roof is a super straightforward, giant southern-facing rectangle, so I paid the going rate to an installer to put 8 panels on enphase. For all the ungodly amounts of money I did tell them to run to strings of conduit across my attic to accommodate future expansion.

                  They subcontracted their work to a smaller installer but the guys who came were awesome and very thorough. My plan was to expand the initial array later on and for "cheap".

                  I was able to buy all of my equipment, now much cheaper and superior, and directly hire one of the guys to add the second row one Saturday morning. He no longer works there (he's in school now), so there was no conflict of interest. It took us three hours, it was hard work but very rewarding, and he left happy.

                  What to do about the second conduit that's rolled up in my attic...
                  10 x LG300 ACe, 24 x M250 (9.84 kW DC)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                    1.) Running a business costs a good deal more than just the labor. 2.) $14K + $10K = $24K. that translates to $24000/7695W = $3.12/Watt. For what sounds like decent equipment. A decent CA price for a turnkey system might be something like $3.25 - $3.50/Watt. 3.) Most turnkey systems from reputable installers often come w/some warranty beyond what comes with the equipment. Perhaps another cost of doing business.
                    Installation price is good. I did try local installer and by solar system from Costco. The quote I got is 1.5-1.75/watt including all racking, electric, permit and every paper works. It includes warranty of the solar system for 10 years. I would say if you do it yourselves you can save $1/watt.

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