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Can a 120v/240v inverter be left on over winter unattended?

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  • Can a 120v/240v inverter be left on over winter unattended?

    I'm installing a Schneider Conext 4048 inverter in my off grid garage. I will have a 48v 208ah battery bank and a Conext XW 60 MTTP charge controller. The garage will be unoccupied over the winter.

    I wold like to keep the inverter on over the winter so I can charge the 12v batteries on my RV, ATV and maybe some other 12v batteries. I will be using batteryminder maintainers that plug into 120v outlets.

    Are these inverters reliable enough that I can expect it to stay on all winter so the batteries on my toys stay charged?

    I guess another question is are these MTTP chargers reliable enough that I can expect it to keep my 48v battery bank maintained over the winter.

    I have a neighbor that can probably check on the system a couple times over the winter.

    Thanks.
    Conext XW5548
    Conext MPPT60-150

  • #2
    Originally posted by hammick View Post
    I'm installing a Schneider Conext 4048 inverter in my off grid garage. I will have a 48v 208ah battery bank and a Conext XW 60 MTTP charge controller. The garage will be unoccupied over the winter.

    I wold like to keep the inverter on over the winter so I can charge the 12v batteries on my RV, ATV and maybe some other 12v batteries. I will be using batteryminder maintainers that plug into 120v outlets.

    Are these inverters reliable enough that I can expect it to stay on all winter so the batteries on my toys stay charged?

    I guess another question is are these MTTP chargers reliable enough that I can expect it to keep my 48v battery bank maintained over the winter.

    I have a neighbor that can probably check on the system a couple times over the winter.

    Thanks.
    Howdy hammick,

    As a general rule I would say no worries, I dont have any direct experience with that inverter, but Schnider have a good rep, they make good stuff. So if someone can pop in a couple of times over winter I would leave it going. There are others who know way more than me, someone might chime in at some stage to help out, cheers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why leave it on
      Those inverters have a 2 year warranty for s reason.
      I would pull all batteries and take home for the winter.
      It eill also reduce the chance of toys growing legs.
      NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

      [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

      [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

      [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Naptown View Post
        Why leave it on
        Those inverters have a 2 year warranty for s reason.
        I would pull all batteries and take home for the winter.
        It eill also reduce the chance of toys growing legs.
        The OP wants to run battery maintainers for vehicles that stay in the garage all winter.
        He might be much better off placing some battery maintainer size panels vertically in a good location and connecting one to each vehicle battery.
        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by hammick View Post
          I'm installing a Schneider Conext 4048 inverter in my off grid garage. I will have a 48v 208ah battery bank and a Conext XW 60 MTTP charge controller. The garage will be unoccupied over the winter.

          I wold like to keep the inverter on over the winter so I can charge the 12v batteries on my RV, ATV and maybe some other 12v batteries. I will be using batteryminder maintainers that plug into 120v outlets.

          Are these inverters reliable enough that I can expect it to stay on all winter so the batteries on my toys stay charged?

          I guess another question is are these MTTP chargers reliable enough that I can expect it to keep my 48v battery bank maintained over the winter.

          I have a neighbor that can probably check on the system a couple times over the winter. Thanks.
          If I understand, you have a pretty substantial 48V battery setup which you will use in summer
          and back up with a generator as needed. 1100 watts of panels to help. My first question is
          how you expect the batteries to survive a winter with no one to run the generator as needed?
          If absolutely no load is connected, the panels might be able to maintain a float state, remember
          short sun hours, clouds, and possibly snow covered panels.

          Battery maintainers are a load. The ones I have used are only about 50% efficient charging up
          a battery. When the battery current drops to float, the maintainer power is still about half what
          it was before. Multiply those losses by inverter losses. Can your 48V plant supply this and
          survive if your panels are snow covered?

          I have another plan for battery maintainers. Some substantial vertically mounted panels will
          not keep snow long term. A very efficient MPPT controller will maintain the 12V battery. The
          controller of course will draw zero current from the battery when there is no sun energy available.
          Batteries will tolerate not having maintain current supplied continuously, but the system must
          be big enough to bring back float state quickly after an extended loss of sun. Again, no loads
          on the battery, just replacing self discharge. Bruce Roe

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually that is a great idea about vertically mounted panels. They would be facing South and would be under the soffit about seven feet off the ground. I could then shut the inverter down and dial back my MTTP charger so my 48v bank doesn't gas off a lot of water.

            I was assuming a 1a batteryminder woldn't be much of a load but I guess in winter with very little sun it's probably not a good idea. But with the inverter load it all adds up.

            I assuming it would not be a good idea to parallel charge small motorcycle/atv batteries with my two 6v GC2 batteries on my RV (that are wired in series)?


            I think I will buy one of these to keep my RV batteries charged over the winter and completely shut down my inverter.

            http://www.amazon.com/BatteryMINDer-...ds=scc-015#Ask

            I'll probably take the ATV and dirt bike batteries home with me. It might prevent their theft in the unlikely event of a break in. Or since they are AGM batteries they can probably go all winter without losing much charge.

            Thanks for the advice.
            Conext XW5548
            Conext MPPT60-150

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hammick View Post
              Actually that is a great idea about vertically mounted panels. They would be facing South and would be under the soffit about seven feet off the ground. I could then shut the inverter down and dial back my MTTP charger so my 48v bank doesn't gas off a lot of water.

              I was assuming a 1a batteryminder woldn't be much of a load but I guess in winter with very little sun it's probably not a good idea. But with the inverter load it all adds up.

              I assuming it would not be a good idea to parallel charge small motorcycle/atv batteries with my two 6v GC2 batteries on my RV (that are wired in series)?


              I think I will buy one of these to keep my RV batteries charged over the winter and completely shut down my inverter.

              http://www.amazon.com/BatteryMINDer-...ds=scc-015#Ask

              I'll probably take the ATV and dirt bike batteries home with me. It might prevent their theft in the unlikely event of a break in. Or since they are AGM batteries they can probably go all winter without losing much charge.
              Getting all loads off the battery will greatly enhance its chances of survival over an unattended winter. Even
              small loads running 24/7 add up. I would expect, the solar maintainer should be sized to deliver something
              like 20 times the current at float, to deal with short days and long outages of sun.

              Putting batteries in parallel is usually a bad idea. If the small battery were to have a serious failure (cell short?),
              the big battery could do some very bad things to it before all the energy available was expended. In any case I
              keep batteries and chargers on concrete floors and metal shelves, away from anything combustable.

              Guess my plan implies separate panels & maintainers per battery. I have considered using a small 12V bulb or
              2 in series with a battery to isolate it from others maintained by a common source. With minimal current the
              non linear bulb has low resistance and will transfer most of the voltage through. A battery that's a little low will
              tend to draw more current; the bulb resistance would rise and allow more voltage to be available to the other
              batteries. If a battery were to completely short, the bulb(s) would simply light, the resistance increase of about
              20 times limiting the current to a minimum.

              This wouldn't be as good with an intermittent power source (solar panel), because the batteries could trade
              charge or run each other down when the maintainer lost power. A quick fix might be a diode in series with each
              battery maintainer circuit, which implies additional voltage compensation in the maintainer.

              This daydreaming started from a couple 275W panels I pulled from serious strings because they couldn't keep up.
              But they will deliver around 75%, I have a lot of batteries to maintain, good places to hang the panels vertically
              on my out buildings, and the low efficiency of maintainers annoys me. Part of the ongoing phantom load
              elimination program. Bruce Roe

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hammick View Post
                I'm installing a Schneider Conext 4048 inverter in my off grid garage. I will have a 48v 208ah battery bank and a Conext XW 60 MTTP charge controller. The garage will be unoccupied over the winter.

                I wold like to keep the inverter on over the winter so I can charge the 12v batteries on my RV, ATV and maybe some other 12v batteries. I will be using batteryminder maintainers that plug into 120v outlets.

                Are these inverters reliable enough that I can expect it to stay on all winter so the batteries on my toys stay charged?

                I guess another question is are these MTTP chargers reliable enough that I can expect it to keep my 48v battery bank maintained over the winter.

                I have a neighbor that can probably check on the system a couple times over the winter.

                Thanks.
                How cold does it get? Where I am, it can get to -20F. Not good for FLA, but better than others like Lithium Iron Phosphate.

                For my purposes, I was planning to use the Schneider ComBox, so I could check on the health of my system when away for a period of time, in addition to having someone check in. I happen to have DSL available at my site, but no power. These days, you may be able to go cellular for connection to the internet.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Living Large View Post
                  How cold does it get? Where I am, it can get to -20F. Not good for FLA, but better than others like Lithium Iron Phosphate.

                  For my purposes, I was planning to use the Schneider ComBox, so I could check on the health of my system when away for a period of time, in addition to having someone check in. I happen to have DSL available at my site, but no power. These days, you may be able to go cellular for connection to the internet.
                  If you have DSL, you must have a "little" power, eh?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lkruper View Post
                    If you have DSL, you must have a "little" power, eh?
                    If you don't count the loop current from the phone company, I have zero power. For some reason, they laid 3/4 mile underground service many years ago, and the main box is about another 1/4 mile away. So I can enjoy DSL if I can get power for a network device.

                    I am not going to run POCO the same route - it would cost $133,000! I am looking at about 1600' to come in another way and over a creek and up a steep slope. A bit under half that cost, worst case. If I subdivide my property and build another house, I can put a good chunk of cash into the new house instead of giving it to the POCO - I jump from 100' free to 1000' free. Next best case. Or, last, I can find one or two others along the route to go online, to provide the free footage. It's $35 a foot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Living Large View Post
                      If you don't count the loop current from the phone company, I have zero power. For some reason, they laid 3/4 mile underground service many years ago, and the main box is about another 1/4 mile away. So I can enjoy DSL if I can get power for a network device.

                      I am not going to run POCO the same route - it would cost $133,000! I am looking at about 1600' to come in another way and over a creek and up a steep slope. A bit under half that cost, worst case. If I subdivide my property and build another house, I can put a good chunk of cash into the new house instead of giving it to the POCO - I jump from 100' free to 1000' free. Next best case. Or, last, I can find one or two others along the route to go online, to provide the free footage. It's $35 a foot.
                      It still sounds like a great opportunity to create something from scratch and who knows.... you might have enough power from that phone co current to run an led!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lkruper View Post
                        It still sounds like a great opportunity to create something from scratch and who knows.... you might have enough power from that phone co current to run an led!
                        It's a great opportunity to irritate the HOA in this snooty lake community, that appears to be gearing up for a fight over crossing their precious creek, which is impassible by canoe. They apparently would prefer I spend the extra cash, and mow down 3/4 mile of trees in the ROW I am entitled to use in deed restrictions, versus 1/3 the number and the 100' crossing of the creek, which is not expressly permitted. The crossing is at property lines and entirely surrounded by 100% treed private property (5+ ac lots) that general community members can't get to, and is currently undeveloped except my cabin. I go before them next month. I don't like seeing power lines - but these won't be seen unless you try to.

                        Oh sure, I can power an LED. Maybe draw 0.5W, until the POCO believes my phone is off hook.

                        It goes to 20 below 0 in winter, the insolation is poor, and my clear sky is from 9:30 to 2:30pm. I decided this is too risky for solar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Living Large View Post
                          It's a great opportunity to irritate the HOA in this snooty lake community, that appears to be gearing up for a fight over crossing their precious creek, which is impassible by canoe. They apparently would prefer I spend the extra cash, and mow down 3/4 mile of trees in the ROW I am entitled to use in deed restrictions, versus 1/3 the number and the 100' crossing of the creek, which is not expressly permitted. The crossing is at property lines and entirely surrounded by 100% treed private property (5+ ac lots) that general community members can't get to, and is currently undeveloped except my cabin. I go before them next month. I don't like seeing power lines - but these won't be seen unless you try to.

                          Oh sure, I can power an LED. Maybe draw 0.5W, until the POCO believes my phone is off hook.

                          It goes to 20 below 0 in winter, the insolation is poor, and my clear sky is from 9:30 to 2:30pm. I decided this is too risky for solar.
                          Living in the outback may have the positive side of being beautiful and serene, which IMO is very desirable but when it comes to basic lifestyle needs, not having a solid power source can be a PIA.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            What did you decide OP?

                            I'm in a similar situation as you, although I get to my remote garage about every 4-6 weeks in Winter. Here are the challenges I see with your desires. Your CC is going to cycle the batteries everyday even if there is no load on them, you're going to have to either charge them or bring them home because you can't leave a FLA sitting in -20 temps in a SOC that degrades every month. Your battery lit should have something on this matter. I don't think you'll be able to go 6 months without exposing the tops of the plates in the battery to air due to the water loss resulting from bulking the battery bank each day.

                            Some possible solutions.
                            - because I'm rarely at my site, I chose the MN 200 because it has arc fault and ground fault built in, you can remote monitor it with their software provided you have an internet connection.
                            - bring all batteries home and care for them there
                            - plan to make a trip at least every couple of months to EQ the bank and add water
                            1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                              Living in the outback may have the positive side of being beautiful and serene, which IMO is very desirable but when it comes to basic lifestyle needs, not having a solid power source can be a PIA.
                              Agreed. I am going to discover how well this argument plays with a board of 9 people who mostly are using theirs as a second home, and not in winter. When it is -10 or -20F, and 3 feet of snow, I am thinking that a solid power source, with an emergency backup, will give me peace of mind. I will already have to worry about keeping clear the 3/4 mile road that is not plowed more often than weekly.

                              Comment

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