Quotes in Sacramento, CA

[jlovinger]

Hi. I've been lurking the past couple months absorbing all of the great information. Finally decided to pull the trigger and have been gathering a number of quotes this past week with standouts below.

1) 7.28 KW SolarWorld 280watt w/ SolarEdge, ~$3.70/watt
2) 6.42 KW Hanwha w/ Fronius, $3.75/watt
3) 6.87 KW Sunpower E20 327watt w/ SMA, $3.89/watt

These systems would be looking towards full/near-full reduction with the 7.4KW system maybe a little oversize. I've also gathered some quotes eliminating high-tier usage which I like better.

4) 4.48 KW SolarWorld 280 watt w/ SolarEdge, ~3.89/watt
5) 4.58 KW Sunpower E20 327watt w/ SMA, $3.93/watt
6) 5.00 KW Hanwha Q-Cell w/ SolarEdge, $3.98/watt (expect I can bargain down to $3.80-$3.85)

Thoughts? I know the prices are a little high but I've seen six installers so far and these are the lowest along with older forum posts lamenting high prices in Sacramento compared to Southern California. If anyone has recommended installers around Sacramento I'd love to hear it.

Right now I'm leaning towards (5). I have an extra Sunpower discount which brought their price low enough to be competitive. I know Sunpower is ordinarily priced far out of whack, but might they be worth a small premium holding all else equal? Five, ten, twenty cents?

Thanks.

[J.P.M.]

Hi. I've been lurking the past couple months absorbing all of the great information. Finally decided to pull the trigger and have been gathering a number of quotes this past week with standouts below.

1) 7.28 KW SolarWorld 280watt w/ SolarEdge, ~$3.70/watt
2) 6.42 KW Hanwha w/ Fronius, $3.75/watt
3) 6.87 KW Sunpower E20 327watt w/ SMA, $3.89/watt

These systems would be looking towards full/near-full reduction with the 7.4KW system maybe a little oversize. I've also gathered some quotes eliminating high-tier usage which I like better.

4) 4.48 KW SolarWorld 280 watt w/ SolarEdge, ~3.89/watt
5) 4.58 KW Sunpower E20 327watt w/ SMA, $3.93/watt
6) 5.00 KW Hanwha Q-Cell w/ SolarEdge, $3.98/watt (expect I can bargain down to $3.80-$3.85)

Thoughts? I know the prices are a little high but I've seen six installers so far and these are the lowest along with older forum posts lamenting high prices in Sacramento compared to Southern California. If anyone has recommended installers around Sacramento I'd love to hear it.

Right now I'm leaning towards (5). I have an extra Sunpower discount which brought their price low enough to be competitive. I know Sunpower is ordinarily priced far out of whack, but might they be worth a small premium holding all else equal? Five, ten, twenty cents?

Thanks.

Since you ask:

Why the disparity in sizes, particularly for 1,2,3 ? Different orientations ?

That's a good price for S.P. but the other prices seem high by 5-10%, taking some of the glitter off the close prices. Maybe that's as good as you're likely to get, but still ??

What's your annual load ? Any attempts at conservation ? That's always cheaper than solar. I'd bet in any case, after load reduction through conservation or not, quotes 4,5,& 6 will be more cost effective.

Have you run PVWatts to estimate or verify vendor output estimates ? Trust but verify. Takes about 15-20 min.

[jlovinger]

Since you ask:

Why the disparity in sizes, particularly for 1,2,3 ? Different orientations ?

That's a good price for S.P. but the other prices seem high by 5-10%, taking some of the glitter off the close prices. Maybe that's as good as you're likely to get, but still ??

What's your annual load ? Any attempts at conservation ? That's always cheaper than solar. I'd bet in any case, after load reduction through conservation or not, quotes 4,5,& 6 will be more cost effective.

Have you run PVWatts to estimate or verify vendor output estimates ? Trust but verify. Takes about 15-20 min.

I have a large south/south-east facing roof at 174 degrees which all the installers quoted exclusively. Ran PVWatts and figured 4.5-5KW as the best ROI against an annual load of ~11000 KWh. Most installers also provided quotes on full replacement. More profit I suppose. Will likely stick to the original plan since I am planning conservation/efficiency upgrades.

Post last month from a fellow in Sacramento with lowest quote of $4.31/watt on Canadian Solar. I'll PM him for an update to see if he found a better deal.

[derekj]

Your prices are better than mine so far for the Bay Area. One SolarWorld quote at $3.94/watt and a SunPower at $6.00/watt (yikes!). Both companies saying price isn't high and not really willing to negotiate. We'll see once I start getting more bids in.

[J.P.M.]

I have a large south/south-east facing roof at 174 degrees which all the installers quoted exclusively. Ran PVWatts and figured 4.5-5KW as the best ROI against an annual load of ~11000 KWh. Most installers also provided quotes on full replacement. More profit I suppose. Will likely stick to the original plan since I am planning conservation/efficiency upgrades.

Post last month from a fellow in Sacramento with lowest quote of $4.31/watt on Canadian Solar. I'll PM him for an update to see if he found a better deal.

Understood. Thank you.

[Corato]

I wound up hooked at 4.315 for Sunpower 327s and Solaredge.

[jlovinger]

My SunPower quotes look lower than normal due to a special discount. Before the discount $4.53/watt for 4.58KW or $4.33/watt for 6.87KW which is in the same ballpark. Both SMA.

My #2 bid was Hanwha Q-Cells at $3.80/watt for 5KW and Solar Edge. Moving forward with Sunpower quote at $3.85/watt for 5.23KW after discount, seems worth the small premium over #2. After chatter I kicked off (see Mythical-3-50-watt-installation) seems a solid quote for the NorCal/Sacramento region.

Market may be distorted over the 30% credit + NEM expiration but I couldn't say in which direction. Credit+NEM allowing installers to get away with higher prices. Or credit+NEM equating to more installs/money/companies with greater efficiency and competition driving down prices. I'm not seeing much hard data on either side of the argument and even in the higher prices scenario would be surprised it if completely counteracted credit+NEM benefits. Hitting my ROI so don't think I'll lose any sleep once panels are up on the roof.

[J.P.M.]

My SunPower quotes look lower than normal due to a special discount. Before the discount $4.53/watt for 4.58KW or $4.33/watt for 6.87KW which is in the same ballpark. Both SMA.

My #2 bid was Hanwha Q-Cells at $3.80/watt for 5KW and Solar Edge. Moving forward with Sunpower quote at $3.85/watt for 5.23KW after discount, seems worth the small premium over #2. After chatter I kicked off (see Mythical-3-50-watt-installation) seems a solid quote for the NorCal/Sacramento region.

Market may be distorted over the 30% credit + NEM expiration but I couldn't say in which direction. Credit+NEM allowing installers to get away with higher prices. Or credit+NEM equating to more installs/money/companies with greater efficiency and competition driving down prices. I'm not seeing much hard data on either side of the argument and even in the higher prices scenario would be surprised it if completely counteracted credit+NEM benefits. Hitting my ROI so don't think I'll lose any sleep once panels are up on the roof.

With everyone selling to the market and most everyone knowing what the other guy is selling for, there's probably less price competition.

IMO, the effect of the tax credits was never about lowering prices to users anyway. It was meant as a boost to get the solar business off the ground. The savings story was a bonus marketing tools that sellers used to help sell consumers the red herring that they were getting a deal.

Another downside to tax credits might be that fatter margins that tax credits effectively allowed permitted poorly run businesses to keep going instead of failing as they would have in a market not skewed by the tax credits.

Bottom line: IMO, without the 30% tax credit prices would have been closer to 30% lower than they were all along, the solar industry would be on a stronger but maybe smaller footing as a result and, in general, the products would be more fit for purpose and more robust as would the remaining/surviving mfgs. and vendors.

[jlovinger]

With everyone selling to the market and most everyone knowing what the other guy is selling for, there's probably less price competition.

IMO, the effect of the tax credits was never about lowering prices to users anyway. It was meant as a boost to get the solar business off the ground. The savings story was a bonus marketing tools that sellers used to help sell consumers the red herring that they were getting a deal.

Another downside to tax credits might be that fatter margins that tax credits effectively allowed permitted poorly run businesses to keep going instead of failing as they would have in a market not skewed by the tax credits.

Bottom line: IMO, without the 30% tax credit prices would have been closer to 30% lower than they were all along, the solar industry would be on a stronger but maybe smaller footing as a result and, in general, the products would be more fit for purpose and more robust as would the remaining/surviving mfgs. and vendors.

Anecdotal, but one local installer came in at $4.60/watt. He knew the other local installers and the prices they came in at. I was curious what would happen so told him a few other installers I was seeing. Fascinating to watch him then pull out a binder with information on the other installers and weave a tale on why I should stick with him. Wouldn't budge on price. That's the sort of installer I expect is depending on the credit to make up for their high prices while the sales team keeps bringing in business.

Then there were installers who seemed much more genuine/earnest with better initial prices and flexibility. Beat that $4.60/watt installer by a wide margin. I expect they're also depending on the credit to support their prices but perhaps to a lesser extent.

I'm sure you're correct a good amount of that 30% just supports fatter install margins. Feel-good hope on my part that those fatter margins eating up the 30% credit are weighted towards the more expensive installs.