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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    You buy power to charge the battery off-peak at a low rate. then dump it during peak higher rates. It has no other purpose at this point.
    OR.... you use solar to charge the battery all day... to use at night.

    BUT.... if your diverting your collected solar power to charge the battery, what power do you use during daylight hours?

    Thats right....... POCO

    I get tired of hearing about stuff being "Battery Powered ".... Batteries dont power anything.

    90% of Prius and Tesla owners will not believe for one moment that their cars are COAL powered. Sure, some are NG, or even hydro powered... but the majority is coal.... and thats a fact.

    I like my house is powered by the sun... most days at least.

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    • #17
      When batteries are capable of time shifting power from demand periods to high value periods the utilities will be the first one in line. The residential customers that think they will outwit the power company long term are delusional.

      Scams are scams but greens hate to admit when one of their bubbles is burst and a "hero" is shown to be a shyster.

      Musk has other funding problems I believe - this is a way to get free publicity and cash.
      [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

      Comment


      • #18
        Delusional Brit

        Some Brit "writer" bought Musk's line - 150%

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-at-night.html

        Her readers can get rich by time shifting power and letting the gubermint pay them the gross FIT's for the export.
        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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        • #19
          Musk Stuff

          More Musk stuff from Bloomberg

          http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...wer-cars-homes
          [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Alisobob View Post
            The way I heard it is that companies making gas guzzlers ( Chevy Suburban as a example) buy carbon credits from Tesla , to offset their poor fleet wide emissions.

            Tesla loses money on each car, but makes money on the credits it sells to other automakers.... which dont really exist.

            Like so much of todays world... its just trading paper.
            It's CAFE (Corperate Average Fuel Economy) credits that they are buying. Nothing to do with carbon or emmissions.

            WWW

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Wy_White_Wolf View Post
              It's CAFE (Corperate Average Fuel Economy) credits that they are buying. Nothing to do with carbon or emmissions.

              WWW
              Your 100% correct, Al Gore's Chicago carbon exchange died in July of 2010 without even a moan. Vehicle Manufacturers have been shifting the MPG from one to the other to meet the overall standards for years.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Alisobob View Post
                [ATTACH=CONFIG]6611[/ATTACH]

                Thats the part I liked. With TOU Net Metering, I'm selling power for about twice what I buy it back for... and I buy back only 1/3 of what I sell.

                Why would I want to store my own power.... ever?
                You really think your extraordinarily generous TOU Net Metering rate structure is going to last forever???! If so I really want some of what you've been smoking.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Time Shifting

                  In a post-Net Metering California, I can see time-shifting as being beneficial to grid-tied consumers with solar.

                  For example- consider a scenario where I pay the utility a retail rate $0.36 per kWh between 5 and 8 pm, but they only pay me the wholesale rate of $0.05 for my excess production earlier in the day. If I can hold onto that excess power, I avoid paying $0.36/kWh to cook dinner.

                  If I can buy a system that will let me store an average of 6 kwh between 11 AM and 2 PM, then use it between 5 and 8 PM, it will keep me from selling at wholesale then buying back at retail 6 kwh per day. Considering that I live in a rather sunny spot, let's plan on doing it 333 days per year. Over 10 years that keeps me from paying the wholesale to retail markup on 20,000 kWh of electricity.

                  Since the Southern California Edison "NEM successor tarrif" has not been established, the economics are impossible to calculate. For those of us grandfathered into a 20 year NEM contract, time shifting probably won't matter unless the TOU periods change a lot.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jimqpublic View Post
                    In a post-Net Metering California, I can see time-shifting as being beneficial to grid-tied consumers with solar.

                    For example- consider a scenario where I pay the utility a retail rate $0.36 per kWh between 5 and 8 pm, but they only pay me the wholesale rate of $0.05 for my excess production earlier in the day. If I can hold onto that excess power, I avoid paying $0.36/kWh to cook dinner.

                    If I can buy a system that will let me store an average of 6 kwh between 11 AM and 2 PM, then use it between 5 and 8 PM, it will keep me from selling at wholesale then buying back at retail 6 kwh per day. Considering that I live in a rather sunny spot, let's plan on doing it 333 days per year. Over 10 years that keeps me from paying the wholesale to retail markup on 20,000 kWh of electricity.

                    Since the Southern California Edison "NEM successor tarrif" has not been established, the economics are impossible to calculate. For those of us grandfathered into a 20 year NEM contract, time shifting probably won't matter unless the TOU periods change a lot.
                    So you estimate saving 20,000kWh over 10 years at $0.36/kWh. That comes to just about $7200 which is less than what a 6 kWh per day battery is going to cost you. So where are you saving any money?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                      So you estimate saving 20,000kWh over 10 years at $0.36/kWh. That comes to just about $7200 which is less than what a 6 kWh per day battery is going to cost you. So where are you saving any money?
                      Who cares Musk gets paid $7200.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                        So you estimate saving 20,000kWh over 10 years at $0.36/kWh. That comes to just about $7200 which is less than what a 6 kWh per day battery is going to cost you. So where are you saving any money?

                        Actually it's a little worse. In my example it would be $6200 once you account for the value of selling morning production to the utility at a nickel per kWh. It doesn't make cents today with NEM. It probably won't in a year with the successor tariff. It might when the evening peak rates increase more and battery system prices drop.

                        I hope they sell a bunch to work the kinks out so eventually they do make sense.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jimqpublic View Post
                          Actually it's a little worse. In my example it would be $6200 once you account for the value of selling morning production to the utility at a nickel per kWh. It doesn't make cents today with NEM. It probably won't in a year with the successor tariff. It might when the evening peak rates increase more and battery system prices drop.

                          I hope they sell a bunch to work the kinks out so eventually they do make sense.
                          Right now the Powerwall is still not ready yet for prime time. Maybe in a few years if prices go down or electric tariffs go up.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                            Right now the Powerwall is still not ready yet for prime time. Maybe in a few years if prices go down or electric tariffs go up.
                            +1!!

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