Tesla Powewall DOA

[Sunking]

Credit to Alisobob for finding this on Yahoo. More bad press for Tesla coming from one of his own companies. Story Here.

Really interesting Quote is

The bigger Tesla battery isn't designed to go through more than about 50 charging cycles a year, according to SolarCity spokesman Jonathan Bass.

It is interesting because both the 7 Kwh and 10 Kwh battery are the exact same battery, just different firmware limiting usable capacity.


Here’s where things get really interesting.

SolarCity, with Musk as its chairman, has decided not to install the 7kWh Powerwall that’s optimized for daily use. Bass said that battery "doesn't really make financial sense" because of regulations that allow most U.S. solar customers to sell extra electricity back to the grid.

And this:

For customers of SolarCity, the biggest U.S. rooftop installer, the lack of a 7kWh option means that installing a Tesla battery to extend solar power after sunset won't be possible. Want to use Tesla batteries to move completely off the grid? You'll just to have to wait. “Our residential offering is battery backup,” Bass said in an e-mail.

It gets better:

The Economic Case for Tesla's New Battery Gets WorseSolarCity is only offering the bigger Powerwall to customers buying new rooftop solar systems. Customers can prepay $5,000, everything included, to add a nine-year battery lease to their system or buy the Tesla battery outright outright for $7,140. The 10 kilowatt-hour backup battery is priced competitively, as far as batteries go, selling at half the price of some competing products.

Yep you wanna buy the battery outright is $7100 smackaroos. Read it and weep.

Its a DOA dud.

[sensij]

Not the most unbiased article ever, and this quote seems to be in conflict with what what thought we knew:

The new Tesla Powerwall home batteries come in two sizes—seven and 10 kilowatt hours (kWh)—but the differences extend beyond capacity to the chemistry of the batteries. The 7kWh version is made for daily use, while its larger counterpart is only intended to be used as occasional backup when the electricity goes out.

That suggests there is in fact a chemistry or construction difference between them, not just firmware, making the 7 kWh model more suitable for daily discharge.

I'm sure it will take some time to shake out the truth. Quick judgements either way will probably look foolish later.

[bberry]

During Tesla's earnings call, CEO Elon Musk just announced that the company has so far taken 38,000 reservations for its Powerwall home battery. "The response has been overwhelming. Like, crazy," Musk said. He went on to describe the reception to Tesla Energy's introduction as "crazy off the hook." Tesla has also tallied 2,500 reservations for the PowerPack. Musk said this actually equates to more like 25,000 since reservations averaged around 10 Powerpacks each. "The volume of demand here has just been staggering," he said. "It really feels like, man, the stationary storage demand is just nutty. Like, worldwide, it’s just crazy."

Those are strong numbers for Tesla's latest venture, and Musk sounds downright giddy. But the early success also means that some customers will be dealing with an extended wait. "There’s no way we can possibly satisfy this demand this year," Musk admitted. "We’re basically sold out through the first half of next year."

[Alisobob]

solar94.JPG

Thats the part I liked. With TOU Net Metering, I'm selling power for about twice what I buy it back for... and I buy back only 1/3 of what I sell.

Why would I want to store my own power.... ever?

[Sunking]

During Tesla's earnings call, CEO Elon Musk just announced that the company has so far taken 38,000 reservations for its Powerwall home battery. "The response has been overwhelming. Like, crazy," Musk said. He went on to describe the reception to Tesla Energy's introduction as "crazy off the hook." Tesla has also tallied 2,500 reservations for the PowerPack. Musk said this actually equates to more like 25,000 since reservations averaged around 10 Powerpacks each. "The volume of demand here has just been staggering," he said. "It really feels like, man, the stationary storage demand is just nutty. Like, worldwide, it’s just crazy."

Those are strong numbers for Tesla's latest venture, and Musk sounds downright giddy. But the early success also means that some customers will be dealing with an extended wait. "There’s no way we can possibly satisfy this demand this year," Musk admitted. "We’re basically sold out through the first half of next year."

We have heard that before from Musk over inflating projections. No one could understand the earnings because Tesla will not say how many cars they have sold, verified sales did not match income until it was discovered Tesla receives $35,000 for each car sold paid by Al Bore in the form of Carbon Credits. I would not be surprised sometime in the future Musk shares a room with Bernie Ebbers and Jeff Skilling.

[Sunking]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6611[/ATTACH]

Thats the part I liked. With TOU Net Metering, I'm selling power for about twice what I buy in back for... and I buy back only 1/3 of what I sell.

Why would I want to store my own power.... ever?

You wouldn't and that is the point no one seems to get, or I say a few refuse to admit or hear. The battery is intended to be charged in off peak hours, and then dumped in peak hours. No solar required. That scam only works in CA where SGIP (tax payers money) are available to fund it. Not hard to figure out if you follow the money.

[Alisobob]

......until it was discovered Tesla receives $35,000 for each car sold paid by Al Bore in the form of Carbon Credits.

The way I heard it is that companies making gas guzzlers ( Chevy Suburban as a example) buy carbon credits from Tesla , to offset their poor fleet wide emissions.

Tesla loses money on each car, but makes money on the credits it sells to other automakers.... which dont really exist.

Like so much of todays world... its just trading paper.

[Sunking]

The way I heard it is that companies making gas guzzlers ( Chevy Suburban as a example) buy carbon credits from Tesla , to offset their poor fleet wide emissions.

Tesla loses money on each car, but makes money on the credits it sells to other automakers.... which dont really exist.

Like so much of todays world... its just trading paper.

There are three huge winners. Musk, Al Bore, and Blood. Paper spends in the checking accounts, computers, and plastic. It really pays when your salary is in Preferred Shares of Stock, especially when you cook the books.

[Alisobob]

This month.... I sold 313 KwH's @ $ 0.22 for approx. $68

solar95.JPG

I then bought back 51 Kwh's @ $0.13 for $6.60

solar96.JPG

Clearing about -$60 for the month.

solar97.JPG


....and Elon thinks I want to buy a battery from him? His battery is about 50% the cost of my whole solar set-up.... no thanks

[Willy T]

This month.... I sold 313 KwH's @ $ 0.22 for approx. $68


I then bought back 51 Kwh's @ $0.13 for $6.60


Clearing about -$60 for the month.


....and Elon thinks I want to buy a battery from him? His battery is about 50% the cost of my whole solar set-up.... no thanks

You must have not had the system long if your -134% of last year.

[Alisobob]

You must have not had the system long if your -134% of last year.

That stat rolls over, every month. Its been up since Nov. 2014

[Willy T]

That stat rolls over, every month. Its been up since Nov. 2014

Ok , got you. I don't know your location, but if I had April, May and half of June year round I'd install 3 times what I have now. This time of year PV smokes until the A/C kicks in.

[DanKegel]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]6611[/ATTACH]

Thats the part I liked. With TOU Net Metering, I'm selling power for about twice what I buy it back for... and I buy back only 1/3 of what I sell.

Why would I want to store my own power.... ever?

Net metering is a sweet deal, but it won't be offered to new customers in California in the current form
( http://www.solarindustrymag.com/e107...?content.14976 ).
Nobody knows what will replace it, but if the utilities have their way, it will not be in any way a subsidy; see

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/DistGen/Discussion_of_NEM_Successor_Tariff_or_Contract_Options_informal_comments.htm

i.e. they'd prefer a wholesale feed-in tariff instead of net metering.

Under those conditions, local storage would be more attractive.

[bberry]

The battery is intended to be charged in off peak hours, and then dumped in peak hours. No solar required.

No, it's not. That would include delivery charges and tax. The way it may work is by the solar producer avoiding grid infrastructure charges and taxes AND time shift. A rational valuation system has to pay the utility an infrastructure charge for electricity that is moved to/from the grid.

Also the "G" in SGIP is for Generation. I'm not going to read the application for that program, but why do you think they would approve a device that takes power from the grid?

[Sunking]

No, it's not. That would include delivery charges and tax. The way it may work is by the solar producer avoiding grid infrastructure charges and taxes AND time shift. A rational valuation system has to pay the utility an infrastructure charge for electricity that is moved to/from the grid.

Also the "G" in SGIP is for Generation. I'm not going to read the application for that program, but why do you think they would approve a device that takes power from the grid?

You need to read the PR and even the link I provided. Dumping during peak hours is what the battery was developed for. SGIP is for load shifting using both public and business as storage for the utility. You buy power to charge the battery off-peak at a low rate. then dump it during peak higher rates. It has no other purpose at this point.