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  • Amstron AGM 12v batteries

    Just wondering if anyone has used the amstron brand batteries and if so how do they like them? How long have you used them and did they hold up to your application? Looking to pick some up (about 40) and just trying to get the feel from others on them.

    Thanks
    Wayne

  • #2
    I have a dealer near me and have used them for various projects. Essentially, they are ups-style backup type agm's, not REALLY designed to do repetetive deep-discharge duties. About 300 max (like most other agm's of this backup-type). Don't deep-discharge them and of course they will last longer. Good for first-time solar projects where you may make a mistake or two.

    Warning - don't even think about picking up all 40 and wiring them all together for some super-capacity battery! Strive for the lowest amount of batteries that you can - typically no more than 2 in parallel if you are wise.

    Comment


    • #3
      thanks for the reply. My main issue is the space I need to put the batteries in. The 12ah are only 3 1/2" tall. I am wiring 5 together in parallel on one system and on another 8. Is there a FLA battery that is small enough to fit into a space that small? They are only running led lights. every night will discharge the battery about 40% leaving 60% full.... on a 80 watt mono panel. I was thinking lithium might be the way to go...I would have to rethink my charge controllers and the leds are 12v dc..I don't mind paying the extra money to get a battery system that will make this as reliable as possible. Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        If you have a space constraint, that's too bad. Hacking together several improper batteries (small sealed cells are NOT deep cycle, and will not last more than a couple months) will work for a short while. You will also start having voltage sag issues as the small cells cannot accept the large wires needed to carry high currents needed for surges.

        If possible, a new location for proper batteries should be determined, or you will be spending a lot of $ keeping batteries cycled through and the lights on
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
          If you have a space constraint, that's too bad. Hacking together several improper batteries (small sealed cells are NOT deep cycle, and will not last more than a couple months) will work for a short while. You will also start having voltage sag issues as the small cells cannot accept the large wires needed to carry high currents needed for surges.

          If possible, a new location for proper batteries should be determined, or you will be spending a lot of $ keeping batteries cycled through and the lights on
          This is not a deep cycle battety?
          http://www.amstron.com/product/AP-12140EV.asp

          What would be then? 10g copper wire jumpers from battery to battery was what I was going to use.
          I understand what your says just find a space availible and put a huge battety there but its not possible.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Solar Sign View Post
            This is not a deep cycle battety?
            http://www.amstron.com/product/AP-12140EV.asp

            What would be then? 10g copper wire jumpers from battery to battery was what I was going to use.
            I understand what your says just find a space availible and put a huge battety there but its not possible.

            Sorry

            My bad. That is the smallest deep cycle rated battery I have seen. Usually, that size is for standby use and rated for float cycle and only for about 20 cycles.

            But the little connection tabs are going to be a problem, and if you read about the difficulty and early battery death of parallel arrays, you may want to look for a site for the large battery, or maybe consider the lithium option. (LFP style)

            http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
              Sorry

              My bad. That is the smallest deep cycle rated battery I have seen. Usually, that size is for standby use and rated for float cycle and only for about 20 cycles.

              But the little connection tabs are going to be a problem, and if you read about the difficulty and early battery death of parallel arrays, you may want to look for a site for the large battery, or maybe consider the lithium option. (LFP style)

              http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html
              thanks for the link and info looks good. Honestly I can just solder a copper ground rod directly on to each terminal in a straight line. Lay all the batteries out end to end and solder the lead going to the charge controller centered on the copper rod. Do a 3/8" diameter ground rod, don't think it going to get better than that. I always over kill everything. I originally got "piggy back" f2 connectors gold plated but I'll just skip all the little connections and go big.

              Comment


              • #8
                Whoa - forget soldering a bus bar to those F2 terminals. By the time you get enough heat, the damage has been done internally.

                Ok, so sounds like you are powering a non-critical load, and forced to use a highly parallel arangement no matter what.

                Here is what I'd recommend since your batteries will need a bit of regular PM life support, but this may not be practical if you don't have any AC, or ability to visit the site often.

                http://www.optimate1.com/optimate-5

                Charge each battery *individually* with this prior to placing them in parallel. Let it finish the charge / test cycle, so for all your batteries, that will take a week or so initially.

                Run your system through about 5 - 10 charge cycles, and this time, visit it with this charger - although instead of individually you may be able to charge it like one huge 12v battery. After that, charge the big parallel system like this every once in awhile as a PM measure. Important - let the charger actually finish the job which requires 12 hours of after-charge testing! Many people pull this off too soon when the green led is still blinking - wait for it to go solid to finish the test.

                Note - I use both the lead-acid and lithium based Optimate chargers and they basically do what they say they do with total honesty. For my small stuff, this is all I use these days. Still, you are using a massively parallel arrangement, so try to actually be present while doing so.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by PNjunction View Post
                  Whoa - forget soldering a bus bar to those F2 terminals. By the time you get enough heat, the damage has been done internally.

                  Ok, so sounds like you are powering a non-critical load, and forced to use a highly parallel arangement no matter what.

                  Here is what I'd recommend since your batteries will need a bit of regular PM life support, but this may not be practical if you don't have any AC, or ability to visit the site often.

                  http://www.optimate1.com/optimate-5

                  Charge each battery *individually* with this prior to placing them in parallel. Let it finish the charge / test cycle, so for all your batteries, that will take a week or so initially.

                  Run your system through about 5 - 10 charge cycles, and this time, visit it with this charger - although instead of individually you may be able to charge it like one huge 12v battery. After that, charge the big parallel system like this every once in awhile as a PM measure. Important - let the charger actually finish the job which requires 12 hours of after-charge testing! Many people pull this off too soon when the green led is still blinking - wait for it to go solid to finish the test.

                  Note - I use both the lead-acid and lithium based Optimate chargers and they basically do what they say they do with total honesty. For my small stuff, this is all I use these days. Still, you are using a massively parallel arrangement, so try to actually be present while doing so.
                  Just bought one, thanks for recommending. A few times a year might be good to service for optimal life. Espically during and after winter. It can be ran on a generator I suppose. I added another battery to the system to try and increase the life cycles and overall preformance. It will just be used for led lighting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good deal going for the Optimate 5.

                    Battery-nerd notes for you:

                    Note that there are two versions of the 5, the normal one and the "voltmatic" which will also do 6v batteries. They both have the same charging specs, except that the voltmatic version will attempt to resuscitate batteries with voltages as low as 1v. The standard model will bring them back from 2v. Not that you'll be going there hopefully!

                    This is a little different from most chargers in that it is a CC/PV, or constant-current (auto adjusting according to other measurements it makes) and a "pulsed voltage" for absorb. What this means is that unlike a normal cc/cv charger which relies on a slightly higher voltage to put the cells into light recombination for balancing, this uses the rise-time of the oscillating pulsed absorb charge to do the same where low cells get a chance at being charged just a little bit more before the highest cell shuts down current flow again, but without a lot of recombination.

                    While it does a great job of charging, don't be tempted to think it will bring back the totally dead / abused battery to service - they say so up front. For FUN, I have brought ups backup batteries that were totally discharged for about 5 years or more at work with just one foot out of the grave to give the charger a workout - although the batteries would not hold any load at all other than an led or two when finished. Other chargers just would not touch them. Fun, but keep it real and use it as a tool to keep batteries in shape, and not a magic wand for total zombie batteries.....

                    You might think I drank too much corporate cool-aid, but I witness the same with my lithium based Optimate (do NOT mix them if you do both lead acid and lithium!) where I have access to individual cells, unlike sealed agm's.

                    I think it is a pretty cool algorithm and love to watch it with my meters during charging. You probably aren't as obsessed with it as I am.

                    Let us know how the project proceeds!

                    Comment

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