Now THIS seems like a very dangerous device to me.

[Roland Saul]

$250 Budget Inverter -12 dc volts in, 3,500 watts at 120 ac volts out. How is this legal ? I could literally create a 300 amp dc current in my shed without realizing it. Man I could cook a whole side of moose in an hour with that kind of current. I guess that if you became a conductor of this circuit it would be fatal right away?? I can not find a corresponding cable reference on ANY 12v voltage drop tables, regardless of wire size. Not even close. I imagine you would have to use solid 1/2" copper bar stock or close to hook up your battery .

[Willy T]

$250 Budget Inverter -12 dc volts in, 3,500 watts at 120 ac volts out. How is this legal ? I could literally create a 300 amp dc current in my shed without realizing it. Man I could cook a whole side of moose in an hour with that kind of current. I guess that if you became a conductor of this circuit it would be fatal right away?? I can not find a corresponding cable reference on ANY 12v voltage drop tables, regardless of wire size. Not even close. I imagine you would have to use solid 1/2" copper bar stock or close to hook up your battery .

Why is a car that goes 120 MPH legal when the fastest legal speed limit in the USA is 75 MPH ??

You can always put a 100 Amp fuse / breaker on the DC input, if that's what you want to limit it to.

[Amy@altE]

We get calls from people who have 10kW 12V inverters they bought elsewhere. Scares the CRAP out of me, I won't touch that system, I won't help them.

[Roland Saul]

That's 1,000 amps from the batteries to the inverter?? Unbelievable.

[Sunking]

$250 Budget Inverter -12 dc volts in, 3,500 watts at 120 ac volts out. How is this legal ?

There are no laws preventing it, just foolish people who buy them and there are a lot of fools out there. None of them are listed and do not comply to be used in premises wiring systems.

I guess that if you became a conductor of this circuit it would be fatal right away??

No sir not how it works. There is no danger of being realistically electrocuted from 12 volts. You could be shocked at 120 volts, but 120 is rarely ever fatal because it cannot push enough current through your body under normal circumstances. The very real and imminent danger is fire, and it will happen at some point. If you are lucky just melt your battery terminal post, or the inverters terminals.

There are several issue involved and all have to do with resistance.

1. It is very unlikely any DIY or non professional could ever terminate a cable properly. It takes very expensive 15 ton hydraulic compression tools with the right dies to properly terminate a cable with a compression connector.

2. At 300 amps requires a minimum 2400 AH battery to safely deliver 300 amps. A 2400 amps battery terminal post are massive with 4-point 5/8 inch holes to terminate a 2 or 4 bolt terminal connectors requiring 50-foot pounds of torque.

3. The Inverter in question terminals are no way designed or capable of terminating a properly sized terminal to handle 300 amps.

Ever see one of these or know what to do with it? Try to find a place to connect it to your battery or inverter.

BUR000122.jpg

All it takes is as little as .01 ohms connection resistance to have an explosion, and I promise you cannot get a connection resistance that low on the inverters. The terminal need 2 square inches of connection surface area and 2 bolts to make and keep it.

But the world is full of fools foolish enough to buy the equipment and oblivious of the dangers and even deny it like Willy.

[Willy T]

1. It is very unlikely any DIY or non professional could ever terminate a cable properly. It takes very expensive 15 ton hydraulic compression tools with the right dies to properly terminate a cable with a compression connector.

Yeah, $39.00 on E-bay.

But the world is full of fools foolish enough to buy the equipment and oblivious of the dangers and even deny it like Willy.

lol, I have never denied it. Thats why I encourage people to limit their output with DC fusing or breakers. Some people cannot afford a $2,000 Inverter.

[SunEagle]

....... It takes very expensive 15 ton hydraulic compression tools with the right dies to properly terminate a cable with a compression connector.

I always thought my Greenlee 12 ton hydraulic crimping tool was satisfactory for terminating a cable. But it cost a few pennies more than that $39.00 Willy T found it for.

[Willy T]

I always thought my Greenlee 12 ton hydraulic crimping tool was satisfactory for terminating a cable. But it cost a few pennies more than that $39.00 Willy T found it for.

I got those also, but these work better, easier to get the dies in and out. Sorry for the price error, $33.95

ScreenHunter_999.jpg

[Sunking]

Yeah, $39.00 on E-bay.

Not a chance, the lugs cost that much. You are talking $5000

Show me your link.

[Willy T]

Not a chance, the lugs cost that much. You are talking $5000

Show me your link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-Hydra...item58b7ed882b

[Sunking]

Too bad it cannot be used in any code compliant system. Seriously it is cheap junk. Just a single die cost more than that.

[Willy T]

Too bad it cannot be used in any code compliant system. Seriously it is cheap junk. Just a single die cost more than that.

It's used everyday on code compliant crimps, get real. Do you think the DC cable lug is a NEC certified crimp ?? Show me the certification on the one you posted.

[Sunking]

It's used everyday on code compliant crimps, get real.

No possible way the dies are not coded or listed. A Listed die alone will cost you $100 and more. $39 would not even buy the raw tool steel they are made from.

Do you think the DC cable lug is a NEC certified crimp ?? Show me the certification on the one you posted.

NEC certified certainly not as they do not certify anything. NEC does require all materials and tooling to be certified by a recognized testing agency like UL and CSA. Burndy T&B compression materials are listed with UL and CSA and each compression terminal has the listed tool and die codes required.

[Willy T]

Y

No possible way the dies are not coded or listed. A Listed die alone will cost you $100 and more. $39 would not even buy the raw tool steel they are made from.



NEC certified certainly not as they do not certify anything. NEC does require all materials and tooling to be certified by a recognized testing agency like UL and CSA. Burndy T&B compression materials are listed with UL and CSA and each compression terminal has the listed tool and die codes required.

Yada, Yada, blowing smoke again. Same as that 200 amp panel in a 19 ft RV trailer yesterday. Before you have a certification, you have to have a specification.

[SunEagle]

YYada, Yada, blowing smoke again. Same as that 200 amp panel in a 19 ft RV trailer yesterday. Before you have a certification, you have to have a specification.

Willy

Sunking is correct. On a project that is reviewed to meet NEC, items like cable termination require certain verification that they were done correctly. Using dies with certification listing that get embossed into the wire termination is one way the Inspector can see the proper tool was used.

Sure you can use any crimping tool you want for your RV or home, but should a fire happen and the investigator finds improper wiring, non UL listed devices or code violations chances are the Insurance company will not pay for damages. Should someone get hurt and violations are found then liability will fall on the person who did the work and criminal procedures could follow.