Please HELP me not burn my camper down!

[Willy T]

I could have but then it would just sit there and consume watts due to it's inefficiency so why use it at all. Besides you know what those in line DC fuses cost?

I made a number of wrong purchases before I really started to read and learn about how to balance a solar battery system. Now I try to make sure others don't make the same mistakes I did.

Thats a total different reason not to use it. Personally I don't buy that kind of junk, but for some it's the best they can do. I rather offer them a solution to make it work for them rather than bash and trash. Yeah, I well know the costs of fuses and breakers. You can buy a Mega or ANL fuse for $5.00. They are not Class T , but they will do the job.

[Willy T]

A large Inverter like that can burn up to 100 watts just sitting there doing nothing. Inverter should be no larger than panel wattage as a general rule.

Like what ?? some can be 100 watts and some 20 watts and some have a 6 watt standby. So it depends on the one you point out,

[Sunking]

Thats a total different reason not to use it. Personally I don't buy that kind of junk, but for some it's the best they can do. I rather offer them a solution to make it work for them rather than bash and trash. Yeah, I well know the costs of fuses and breakers. You can buy a Mega or ANL fuse for $5.00. They are not Class T , but they will do the job.

But you are doing them no favor. Over sized cheap Inverters are a large parasitic drain. As I stated some will consume up to 100 watts collecting dust draining the batteries down. You are not really doing anyone any good doing that and just costing them more money in the long run by more frequent battery replacement not to mention putting their lives at risk.

Anyone coming here stating to use more than 1000 watts @ 12 volts is going to get a lesson. Personally I would rater adjust their attitude with a 2 x 4 upside the head and hurt their feelings vs causing someone to hurt themselves or cause a electrical fire. Keep in mind you could be held liable along with the Forum owners. Don't think it cannot happen because it already has happened. Free speech does not apply.

[Willy T]

90+% efficiency, true Sine wave, .8 PF, less than 2% harmonic distortion. That will be your 24, 48, and 96 volt inverters one would use over 1000 watts.

Would that be like one of these 12 v that meet that criteria ?? We were talking about 12 V, are you switching voltage.

Schneider / Xantrex

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Outback

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[Sunking]

Would that be like one of these 12 v that meet that criteria ?? We were talking about 12 V, are you switching voltage.

a 2000 watt Inverter requires 2000 watt panels. Why on earth would anyone want to build 2 separate 1000 watt 12 volt systems on a common battery when they can build a single 2000 watt system at 24 volts? That would be very foolish, stupid, dangerous, and extremely expensive. 12 volt systems are for RV's and toys.

You gotta get out of the 12 volt box you are trapped in.

[Willy T]

a 2000 watt Inverter requires 2000 watt panels. Why on earth would anyone want to build 2 separate 1000 watt 12 volt systems on a common battery when they can build a single 2000 watt system at 24 volts? That would be very foolish, stupid, dangerous, and extremely expensive. 12 volt systems are for RV's and toys.

You gotta get out of the 12 volt box you are trapped in.

I think it's you that have created the box and shut the lid.

Should one consider the type loads when choosing a Inverter ?? Is there a difference depending on size of Resistive loads / Inductive Loads when choosing ??

Does it make a difference if the loads are Intermittent or Continuous ??

When one connects the Inverter to a sub panel what is the controlling factor of the over all output ?? The panel amp capacity or the fusing / breakers to the loads ??

If a 24 / 48 v Inverters are the standard, then why not 96 V. If it's not available, why aren't you demanding it ??

What is the difference in a 6000W 48v inverter using 4/0 cables and a 1500W 12v using 4/0 cables ??

99% of all RV's and Boats that have Inverters Installed at the factory are 2000w - 3000 W inverters @ 12v installed as they are the only ones that meet the approved to UL458 with marine supplement, CSA, ABYC and FCC, Class B requirements to their standards industry and standard 12 v wiring and fixtures.

How many people with a 2500 w surge @ 12v Inverter system need it to start a 5000 btu a/c ( Momentary Inductive Load ), drawing 450w continuous to keep their refrigerator running at the same time ??

[Sunking]

When one connects the Inverter to a sub panel what is the controlling factor of the over all output ?? The panel amp capacity or the fusing / breakers to the loads ??

The Inverter and battery size. You can hook up a 100 watt inverter to a 200 amp panel if you a dumb enough. FWIW you can buy inverters up to 600 volt battery. You are just stuck inside a 12 volt box out of ignorance. We can fix that for you, but we cannot fix stupid.

[Mike90250]

Responses in red

I think it's you that have created the box and shut the lid.

Should one consider the type loads when choosing a Inverter ?? Is there a difference depending on size of Resistive loads / Inductive Loads when choosing ??

YES. Small inverters don't often handle inductive loads well, when the PF goes below .7 they may not be able to source enough power to feed the load.


Does it make a difference if the loads are Intermittent or Continuous ??
Better inverters have thermostat controlled fans to manage heat removal.

When one connects the Inverter to a sub panel what is the controlling factor of the over all output ?? The panel amp capacity or the fusing / breakers to the loads ??
Depends on the inverter, connecting a $30 12v mod sine inverter to a house sub panel will result in instant smoke from the inverter. A pure sine inverter connected to a house sub panel will not burn up, and will deliver power till it reaches it's limits. The breakers in the panel are sized to protect the wires in the walls.

If a 24 / 48 v Inverters are the standard, then why not 96 V. If it's not available, why aren't you demanding it ??
50VDC is the code limit for most DIY. Over 50V requires special in$tall.

What is the difference in a 6000W 48v inverter using 4/0 cables and a 1500W 12v using 4/0 cables ??
6000W 48v = 125a 1500W 12v= 125a No difference, except the 48V inverter is much less likely to be underbuilt to handle that power.



99% of all RV's and Boats that have Inverters Installed at the factory are 2000w - 3000 W inverters @ 12v installed as they are the only ones that meet the approved to UL458 with marine supplement, CSA, ABYC and FCC, Class B requirements to their standards industry and standard 12 v wiring and fixtures.

How many people with a 2500 w surge @ 12v Inverter system need it to start a 5000 btu a/c ( Momentary Inductive Load ), drawing 450w continuous to keep their refrigerator running at the same time ??

I have no idea and don't care.

[Sunking]

Mike you should have mentioned a standard house circuit is 20 amps and easily over load a 200 watt inverter. Imagine a typical house with 200 amp service with all 42 breakers installed. Some of those breakers are dual 60 Amp breakers.

[paulcheung]

What is the difference in a 6000W 48v inverter using 4/0 cables and a 1500W 12v using 4/0 cables ??

The difference is most if not all $2500 to $4000 6000W 48V quality Inverters are UL listed and tested to work with the current they are carry. If you look at the crappy $200 to $300 3000w to 8000w inverters you will see most of them use little 1/4 inches bolt and nuts to connect the battery wires like this one.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Wagan-Wagan-8000W-Continuous-Power-Inverter/23528686#Specifications

Check out this thread,

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?18163-Can-this-thing-work

If the person who want to buy and use those inverters, who live alone and isolated to other people property, by all mean, I won't go near them.

Best regards.

[bulldrummerbullies]

You weren't smart enough to limit it's output to what ever you wanted with it's DC Fusing or Breaker ??

I limited out put on my 2500 12volt inverter on the out put side so it could never draw a unsafe amps from the battery bank it work very well and the fuse was cheap. The inverter has fulfilling my needs for over 3 years no break downs I did not get a cheap Walmart or Harbor Freight 800 or 900 watt inverter although my inverter was cheap it was big so it was not over worked. By stay 12 volts on my battery bank I did not have to change my L E D lighting system or replace my very large battery charger, my wind generator was a old 12 volt model, I could stick with the same type solar panel so it all match. It is nice to know someone on this site realize you do not have to pull 200 amp just because you have a 2500 watt inverter. Efficiency to me is finding something that work at the price I can afford. There are many very good reasons way guys with less resource stick a all 12 volt system. Some are very creative some are not so good. of course if I was starting over now I would buy a 12 24 48 inverter.

[inetdog]

With that sort of insight into your needs, the only real drawback of a typical high wattage inverter for delivering a low wattage load is that larger inverters tend to have higher idling power consumption when not being loaded at all or loaded very lightly.
If you are able to turn off your inverter completely during those times, your losses will be reduced.
Some of our members have two inverters: a low wattage that is left on all the time for small loads and a high wattage inverter that is turned on when needed.

[Fractalcathedral]

What are you talking about? Any engineer knows this. Manufactures can make the box safe, but they cannot fix stupid people who buy them. Secondly if you look at the Inverters most are not listed by any testing agency. They do not have to be because they are not intended to be used in premises wiring under authority having jurisdiction. The Public is ignorant and can sold just about anything. How do you think Obama got elected.

Because people didn't want Sarah Palin near the White House?