Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Please HELP me not burn my camper down!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Please HELP me not burn my camper down!

    I have bought a 19 foot pull behind camper that I will live in, off grid on BLM land for the next 6-18 months (depending how smoothly it goes).

    I have spoken with a couple of solar industry professionals. With their help I know I need more solar power than can fit on my camper (Hot climate - fans!)... so I'm trying to get as much power as I reasonably can, and will have to make due with what I get.

    I'm also planning to sell the camper in 1 1/2 to 2 years. With that in mind, the system doesn't need to last years and years, so I'm trying to go as cheap on it as I comfortably can.

    Both the solar professionals and electricians I've contacted for help have told me they're not interested in working on a camper and look elsewhere. I'm now on my own to sort out and install this.

    This is what I've already bought:
    - Solar panels and charge controller:
    http://www.windynation.com/MPPT-Poly...342?p=YzE9NDc=

    - Per the Windy Nation sales rep, I bought one of these circuit breaker to go between the panels and the charge controller, and one to go between the charge controller and the batteries:
    http://www.windynation.com/Switches-...249?p=YzE9MjI=

    - charge monitor:
    http://www.ecodirect.com/Blue-Sky-IP...y-ipnpro-s.htm

    The Windy Nation rep recommended at least 500 amp hours battery, so I'm looking at buying these batteries (there are 4 total):
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ACNRSLE/...I3H5GTUDP4UNK8

    Looking at buying this inverter:
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZBHFMY/...I2SXNH8IHNH0G2

    Questions:
    - Will those batteries and inverter safely work into my system? Are they appropriate, or is there a more appropriate choice?

    - What wires/cables do I buy to connect batteries together, and connect batteries to inverter? What fuses and where specifically do they go in the system?

    I can't express just how much I appreciate any and all knowledgeable help designing selecting this system. Thank you.

  • #2
    It is hard to say how appropriate anything is unless you can share what your expected load is.

    If you are operating at 12 V, that 40 A charge controller is pretty much maxed out with the 400 W of panels you have. You'll be in better shape if you go to 24 V, double the number of panels, and wire the batteries for 250 Ah. Even though it is an MPPT charge controller, it won't accept input voltage higher than 30 V for 12 V batteries, or 55 V for 24 V batteries. That limits some of the wiring efficiency that MPPT normally offers by putting panels in series, or using grid-tie panels.

    Those batteries list a 30 A max charging current, 12 A recommended. With 400 W of panels you'll be charging at 8 A max, and usually less... not enough to support the batteries. AGM batteries like higher charge current, a different type of battery would do OK with less.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
      I can't express just how much I appreciate any and all knowledgeable help designing selecting this system. Thank you.
      Thanks for what? You already screwed up big time with what you have bought without our help.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
        Thanks for what? You already screwed up big time with what you have bought without our help.
        Ouch. So the Windy Nation kit is ****?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sensij View Post
          It is hard to say how appropriate anything is unless you can share what your expected load is.

          ... You'll be in better shape if you go to 24 V, double the number of panels, and wire the batteries for 250 Ah.

          ... a different type of battery would do OK with less.
          Expeted load being my expeted use? Primarily just to run 2 small fans 24/7 (2 senior citizen pets that I want the air flow for). The other things (laptop, lights) all added up to be pretty small.

          I've only got room for those 4 panels. With other panel brands I researched, dimensions would only allow 2 panels.

          Batteries you'd recommend?

          Thank you. I don't pretend to be anything but ignorant about all of this. Again, I appreciate all your help and advice.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            This is what I've already bought:
            - Solar panels and charge controller:
            http://www.windynation.com/MPPT-Poly...342?p=YzE9NDc=
            Basically junk and over priced. Those are battery panels and a fake MPPT charge controller which will turn your 400 watt panels into a 270 watt panels. For $500 you could have bought 300 watts of Grid Tied panels, and a real 20 amp MPPT charge controller that actually gives you 300 watts out to the battery. For $600 you could have 400 watt GT panels and same good MPPT controller that puts out 400 watts to the battery. Instead you paid $700 for 270 watts. Great salesman you worked with

            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            - Per the Windy Nation sales rep, I bought one of these circuit breaker to go between the panels and the charge controller, and one to go between the charge controller and the batteries:
            http://www.windynation.com/Switches-...249?p=YzE9MjI=
            Salesman did a great job. Sold you something that is not needed or required. What you do need is 2 to 4 over current protection devices between controller/battery, and battery/inverter is where the fire risk comes into play.

            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            Another great sales job selling you something you have no need for.

            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            The Windy Nation rep recommended at least 500 amp hours battery, so I'm looking at buying these batteries (there are 4 total):
            http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ACNRSLE/...I3H5GTUDP4UNK8
            Give me this salesman name I want to hire him, he is a top rated pigeon plucker and can sale an Eskimo ice cream sandwiches. With the panels and controller you bought can only support a 12 volt 150 AH battery. He gigged you for 300% more. 270 watts will no tproperly charge those batteries. You wil be back shorty to buy even more batteries.

            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            That is really funny, So you want to burn down your camper huh? Inverter size should be no larger than your panel wattage. Maximum Panel wattage at 12 volts with 80 amp controller is 1000 watts. With what you have bought, realistically can only support a 300 watt Inverter.

            Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
            Questions:
            - Will those batteries and inverter safely work into my system? Are they appropriate, or is there a more appropriate choice?
            Pretty much covered that already. You should have came here first and did your homework before buying anything. We can fix ignorance with good information, but we cannot fix stupid mistakes.
            MSEE, PE

            Comment


            • #7
              To elaborate, should I return the Windy Nation kit and get something else? Keep panels and return the controller?

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay Sunking, I now see that YES, I should return the things I've already bought. WOW, way to be an ignorant consumer. The Windy Sales rep told me to buy an even bigger inverter than the one I linked to! Jeez, I'm glad I came here before buying and attempting to install everything. My worst fear of burning down the camper really would have came true. That's only terrifying!

                Please, please would you be willing to help me to buy the right things?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
                  To elaborate, should I return the Windy Nation kit and get something else? Keep panels and return the controller?
                  That is a start, but first you need to figure out what you really need in terms of daily Watt Hour consumption. Until you do that, you are only guessing which is what got you in trouble to start with.

                  I have no idea what location you are going to be in to determine Sun Hours. You said somewhere south where it is hot in the summer. That tells me in winter around 4 sun hours. With 400 watts of panel with a good controller limits maximum daily power use of about 1 Kwh or 10 cents worth of electricity. That is not very much power over 24 hours would only run a single 40 watt light bulb.

                  400 watts of panels requires a 35 amp MPPT controller, to charge a 12 volt 400 AH battery powering up to a 400 watt or smaller inverter. Until you know how much power you need in a day, you cannot do much.

                  Here is the bad part. Solar panels cannot tolerate any kind of shade from sun up to sun down. Not even a single leaf from a bush. That is not a good recipe for a camper in summer. Makes for a good solar oven.

                  Yes I am being hard on you trying to get your attention to save you from yourself. If al you have bought up to this point is the panels and controllers, you are not hurt that bad. The panels can be used, but they are over priced. The controller makes for a good paper weight or small boat anchor. If you keep th epanels locks you into using the same type panels for expansion.
                  MSEE, PE

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    prefer you give it to me straight. Being hard on me is appreciated. I can and will return the items I've bought. I work too hard for my money to install overpriced **** on my camper.

                    I've got my expected energy use written down at home. I could post that later once I'm off work. The items (without their power use) are:
                    - 2 small fans 24/7
                    - Laptop just a few hours a day
                    - Camper water pump, 30 min/day
                    - camper lights: 2 lights, 2 hours/day
                    - Cell phone, plugged in as power allows. It could charge in my vehicle.

                    I'll be in the Utah desert, greater Moab area. There are small trees and shrubs, but nothing even as tall as the camper. All that unavoidable sun is what got me thinking solar. Plan to be there all spring and summer, maybe longer. Maybe spend next winter in Arizona.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
                      Being hard on me is appreciated.
                      You've come to the right place.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TwistedRiver View Post
                        prefer you give it to me straight. Being hard on me is appreciated. I can and will return the items I've bought. I work too hard for my money to install overpriced **** on my camper.

                        I've got my expected energy use written down at home. I could post that later once I'm off work. The items (without their power use) are:
                        - 2 small fans 24/7
                        - Laptop just a few hours a day
                        - Camper water pump, 30 min/day
                        - camper lights: 2 lights, 2 hours/day
                        - Cell phone, plugged in as power allows. It could charge in my vehicle.
                        OK that sounds doable, only thing that might get you is the fans. What are you doing for refrigeration and cooking? LPG????
                        MSEE, PE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Still haven't made it home to get my numbers. But I remember the fans are 100 watts each (2 fans). That's really the bulk and priority of my energy needs. I also know it may not be possible to run 2 fans 24/7, but as close as I could get to that is my goal.

                          Fridge, stove/burners, grill are all propane. Fridge could run on electric but I'm not even thinking about that.

                          Thanks again, and again for your help and input!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For the limited load that you will be using you dont need 500 ah. Maybe 200 ah, during the day the fans will be running off the solar panels. You only have to worry about night time, and you usually can throttle the fans down at night.

                            I would recommend you get some 12 volt endless breeze fantastic fans, they put out alot of air for 3.5 amps they use. They have 3 settings, the lower settings you can use at night to save power. These are more efficient since they run straight off 12 volts and you wont need an inverter. They are expensive at about 80 dollars each but i have one and its a good fan. But you are paying a premium since not too many companies make these large 12 volt fans. The fans you plan on using at 100 watts is too much, you can do alot better. The more you can cut down on power usage the less batteries you need.

                            The 400 watt kit you got is probably overkill for your uses. Your batteries will be on float mode almost all the time. Even though its overkill, with solar its better to have more power than you need. It will charge your batteries up quicker if they are completely dead. The mppt controller looks to be a true mppt controller, I research controllers and that was one I had my eye on. You dont have any loads that require such large 2000 watt inverter, just get a smaller 400 watt inverter instead.

                            I have my van wired up for solar with a 240 watt solar panel and an ecoworthy mppt 20 amp controller charging a 102 ah kinetick agm battery. With this setup I can easily do what you plan on doing. if I wanted to run my fans 24/7 I would just add another 102 ah battery. During the day I run a 3.5 amp swamp cooler when the sun is up, use my netbook as long as I want, charge my cellphones, use my lights. That why I think your 400 watts is more than enough for what you plan on doing. With 240 watts i have power to spare and the battery is almost always on float mode.

                            Any wire that connects to my battery I put fuses on it. Thats the best way not to burn anything down.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I agree with the 12v fans. On a small system you want to be able to have the inverter normally off. So 12v fans and 12v lights. If the trailer came with fans these will be 12v. For an 18 month system I would check Costco for golf cart batteries.

                              Your battery budget is probably 4 6v 225ah at a max of $500.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X