NPR story on utilities fighting back against solar

[J.P.M.]

As long as they are set to decline to zero over time, they're relatively benign. It's the ones that never go away you have to watch out for.
See for instance http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html

Tell the benign part to the people who got screwed royal by shysters who were selling solar and aided/abetted by solar subsidies instead of the last scheme they got out of just ahead of the subsidies for that business or the law.

[DanKegel]

How important is EROI in energy production?

Are you talking about the question of whether solar systems produce more energy than is used in their manufacture?
I think the answer there is "yeah, they do, by a fair bit"; see https://web.archive.org/web/20130701...solar/Myth.pdf

Corn ethanol as fuel, on the other hand, does not seem to yield more energy than was used in its production; see e.g.

http://www.resilience.org/stories/2010-08-09/new-perspectives-energy-return-energy-investment-eroi-corn-ethanol-part-2-2

[DanKegel]

Tell the benign part to the people who got screwed royal by shysters who were selling solar and aided/abetted by solar subsidies instead of the last scheme they got out of just ahead of the subsidies for that business or the law.

Um... care to be more specific? And aren't the shysters also being aided and abetted by the telephone system, the internet, and the banking system?

[Ben25]

Green mountain power pays $.20/kWh and charge approximately $.15/kWh. Credits build up in summer, are used in the winter for heating and if there's any excess at the end if the winter, they cut a check. Not a bad deal, but maybe not sustainable on a large scale.

[solar pete]

Cool Thread,

Re Net Metering, not a fan, I hope your sitting down SK, but I dont consider the NET Metering schemes to be fair. Perhaps I should say I prefer the feed in tarif model or FiT like we have in SA. It started about 7 or 8 years ago and has been wound down as the Solar Industry got on its feet here. Now the fit is down to about 5 cents per kilowatt hour that is feed back into the grid, I think this system is the best way moving forward.

[DanKegel]

(Still waiting for one of my posts to be approved...)

I think they're going to keep net metering in name only here in the US,
but make it more like a FiT where you get compensated at some
lower rate. California is working on a "NEM successor tariff"; see

http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/DistGen/NEMWorkShop04232014.htm

[J.P.M.]

Um... care to be more specific? And aren't the shysters also being aided and abetted by the telephone system, the internet, and the banking system?

Yes, just as bank robbers are aided by people who maintain the streets. That's a bogus analogy. How much more specific do you need than subsidies make it easier for solar rip off scumbags to survive and hurt everyone ?

[DanKegel]

How about a specific scumbag?

[J.P.M.]

How about a specific scumbag?

Not necessary. From what I see in my neighborhood, one's about as useless/counterproductive as the next. Besides, they seem ubiquitous. Wait awhile. One will be by shortly, either on the phone or via flier. When they snag you, remember to tell them you heard about their existence from me. If you run into any ethical solar vendors, please give them my best.

[DanKegel]

Is this like voter fraud -- people know it's everywhere, no evidence is required?

[J.P.M.]

Is this like voter fraud -- people know it's everywhere, no evidence is required?

Only from people who got screwed. I know a few. I also know a few who, IMO, got screwed and don't believe it.

You goin' somewhere with this ?

[DanKegel]

Just call me a skeptic. I'd love to hear more details about fraud induced by solar subsidies.

[J.P.M.]

Just call me a skeptic. I'd love to hear more details about fraud induced by solar subsidies.

I don't intend to call you anything. Indulge your curiosity as you please, but run the fake Socratic style of insincerity on someone else.

[DanKegel]

I'm curious -- why do you call me insincere?

[J.P.M.]

i'm curious -- why do you call me insincere?

a.m.f.