My 24 Aquion AHI batteries

[RedDenver]

Bill why is it a battery company only 4 years old, with less than 1 year of sales under their belt are on their 3rd product revision? How can a battery company with less than 1 year worth of product claim 10,000 cycle life and have to already have 3 revisions of their product line? What was wrong with the fist two revisions?

They've presumably been testing the chemistry for several years. They're claiming 3000 (100% DOD) to 6000 (50% DOD) cycle life. At the 5 hour current rate, would take 2*3000*5/(24*365)=3.4 years, which they haven't had enough time to do on each version. So they're either testing at greater than the 5 hour rate (which I doubt) or testing on individual cells (which should take a lot less time to charge/discharge) and estimating the system performance.

From what I can tell, the second version had lower internal resistance and the third version has a higher current limit.

Looks like a good technology to wait a few years and see what real-world performance reveals and let the price come down.

[Sundetective]

All I need to know is just what fact or facts in going on 4 years
are Lies so that I can correct them.
Have I run too many posts over the years?

The 3rd AHI Generation isn't here yet. They hope to be there by the
end of this year.
There are only 2.

Did they never change Lead Acid as they went along ?
Do Trojans stay the same ?

AHI claims to be 8 year old technology as of the 4/21/15
Press Release about The Cradle to Cradle deal.
I'm into things bigger than batteries.
Old Bill has no dog in dis hunt.
Relax. You'll live a lot longer.

Google follows me around the Internet like a puppy dog and the last
thing that I want is to make them look bad.

Bill Blake

[Sunking]

Did they never change Lead Acid as they went along ?
Do Trojans stay the same ?

Yep Trojan revises batteries once about every ten years, not 3 times in less than a year.

[Amy@altE]

It's a shame that you have one of the most innovative battery systems ever offered and
no one seems to have asked any technical questions.

OffGridHI - can you tell us a little more about performance compared to the batteries
you had before ? What are the charge / discharge rates ? Are you using the same charge
controller as before ? And did Aquion have any recommendations about charge controllers -
seems to be that the behavior of these batteries has to differ in some significant ways
from what has been used before ?

I am very interested in these - contacted Aquion direct last year but have not pulled the
trigger yet - one of my main concerns being that I live in an area of actual WINTER weather
and what would happen when / if the temps in my battery storage room dropped below freezing.
I'm assuming that this would destroy the Aquions.

Looking forward to any first hand info you can give us.

Thanks.

There are several threads in this forum discussing the technical aspects of these batteries.

They are tolerant to freezing, you would not destroy them. However, like most batteries, they have a higher capacity at warmer temperatures, so it would benefit you to insulate the battery box in freezing weather.

The newer version that is available this summer has a 20A fuse instead of the existing 15A fuse, so they are making improvements in the charging rates available. They also have increased the voltage range, so the new minimum voltage is 40V instead of 30V, lining up better with most inverters.

Their install manual includes recommended settings for most major charge controller models.

[Sun Tzu]

There are several threads in this forum discussing the technical aspects of these batteries.

They are tolerant to freezing, you would not destroy them. However, like most batteries, they have a higher capacity at warmer temperatures, so it would benefit you to insulate the battery box in freezing weather.

The newer version that is available this summer has a 20A fuse instead of the existing 15A fuse, so they are making improvements in the charging rates available. They also have increased the voltage range, so the new minimum voltage is 40V instead of 30V, lining up better with most inverters.

Their install manual includes recommended settings for most major charge controller models.

As Sunking mentioned, they are up to 3 product changes in a year and the voltage range has changed 4 times. It smells of capacity doping (a wider range to get more capacity). At best, they realized that no inverter will work with a wide range and "made up" one to make it look like it works with stuff on the market. It is probably a mixture of both. Regardless, it adds up to them still figuring out what the battery does.

How would going from a 20A fuse instead of a 15A fuse improve their charge rates? Fusing is for protecting things from being damaged by heat. Don't they offer a version without a fuse anyway? Did they change the connectors and jumper wires to handle a greater amount of heat and current?

[Sunking]

Anything energy company Bill Gates invest in goes to chit guaranteed.There are two investors I watch to know what not to invest in.

Bill Gates and Willy Nelson.

[OffGridHawaiian]

They've presumably been testing the chemistry for several years. They're claiming 3000 (100% DOD) to 6000 (50% DOD) cycle life. At the 5 hour current rate, would take 2*3000*5/(24*365)=3.4 years, which they haven't had enough time to do on each version. So they're either testing at greater than the 5 hour rate (which I doubt) or testing on individual cells (which should take a lot less time to charge/discharge) and estimating the system performance.

From what I can tell, the second version had lower internal resistance and the third version has a higher current limit.

Looks like a good technology to wait a few years and see what real-world performance reveals and let the price come down.

Aloha,

Just had my installer check how our system is doing, the one doing the Balken Estate on the Big Island. Everything has been working GREAT. We are running the 1st Gen and all seems well. Haven't had them down past 60% SOC for a while, since we have Full Charge most everyday. Have had system running for 7 months now and batteries have cycled 31 times. This adds up to around 4 1/2 cycles per month. Let's just say (hypothetically) 6000 cycles @ 50% DOD. Our system cycles 54 times per year. Battery lasts 100 years

[SunEagle]

Aloha,

Just had my installer check how our system is doing, the one doing the Balken Estate on the Big Island. Everything has been working GREAT. We are running the 1st Gen and all seems well. Haven't had them down past 60% SOC for a while, since we have Full Charge most everyday. Have had system running for 7 months now and batteries have cycled 31 times. This adds up to around 4 1/2 cycles per month. Let's just say (hypothetically) 6000 cycles @ 50% DOD. Our system cycles 54 times per year. Battery lasts 100 years

Great to hear you are getting good results from that battery. I appreciate getting your status updates.

[OffGridHawaiian]

Aloha,

Just had my installer check how our system is doing, the one doing the Balken Estate on the Big Island. Everything has been working GREAT. We are running the 1st Gen and all seems well. Haven't had them down past 60% SOC for a while, since we have Full Charge most everyday. Have had system running for 7 months now and batteries have cycled 31 times. This adds up to around 4 1/2 cycles per month. Let's just say (hypothetically) 6000 cycles @ 50% DOD. Our system cycles 54 times per year. Battery lasts 100 years

BattMon61415.jpg

According to Conext ComBox, 1000Ah = 1 cycle. Aquions have a 51Ah capacity, since there are 24 stacks in our system, then we have 1224Ah total capacity. We have removed 34071 Ah from our battery bank which actually calculates out to 28 cycles. Is this the correct way to figure out cycles? Maybe not, they're Aquions

[Sunking]

[ATTACH]7066[/ATTACH]

According to Conext ComBox, 1000Ah = 1 cycle. Aquions have a 51Ah capacity, since there are 24 stacks in our system, then we have 1224Ah total capacity. We have removed 34071 Ah from our battery bank which actually calculates out to 28 cycles. Is this the correct way to figure out cycles? Maybe not, they're Aquions

A cycle is any discharge followed by recharge.

[OffGridHawaiian]

A cycle is any discharge followed by recharge.

So actually everyday is a cycle, means @ 100% DOD = 8.22 years and @ 50% = 16.44 years. Usually we are around 25% DOD in the morning so could that = 32.88 years? I was liking the 100 year plan better

[inetdog]

A cycle is any discharge followed by recharge.

The only thing that is hard to evaluate is the "microcycles" caused by turning large enough loads on and off the middle of the PV period to alternate between net charge and net discharge.
For lead acid, microcycles do not seem to be as important as full cycles, while for some other chemistries like NiCad consistent microcycling can reduce capacity strongly. (The electric toothbrush memory effect.)

[SunEagle]

The only thing that is hard to evaluate is the "microcycles" caused by turning large enough loads on and off the middle of the PV period to alternate between net charge and net discharge.
For lead acid, microcycles do not seem to be as important as full cycles, while for some other chemistries like NiCad consistent microcycling can reduce capacity strongly. (The electric toothbrush memory effect.)

I guess the big question is how does the Aquion chemistry actually define a "cycle". The tests going on with OffGridHawaiian may shed some light but it may take a year to really understand the dynamics.

[Sunking]

The only thing that is hard to evaluate is the "microcycles"

Agreed, but after 35 years of being in the biz one thing you learn is no battery ever makes it to its claimed cycle life, calendar life will kill it.

As a doctor (my wifey) will tell you all deaths are preventable, no one ever dies of old age, it could have been prevented if only....

[Sundetective]

I guess the big question is how does the Aquion chemistry actually define a "cycle". The tests going on with OffGridHawaiian may shed some light but it may take a year to really understand the dynamics.

Are there any other Aquion Energy AHI Battery experiments going on
currently besides that little one with the AltE Store and the Great
Hawaii 'Topcat' Experiment?

There are people, including myself, that want to be believers.

Don't we get one experiment per year of fanfare -

per 10 Million Dollar Bill of OPM (other peoples money) ?

Bill Blake