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  • #16
    That is great and all, but you are really doing this out of sequence. What is the load you intend to run? How much power, and for how many hours out of the day? From that, you can figure the required battery size, and everything else will follow. This seems to be the one question you haven't asked.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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    • #17
      Originally posted by sensij View Post
      That is great and all, but you are really doing this out of sequence. What is the load you intend to run? How much power, and for how many hours out of the day? From that, you can figure the required battery size, and everything else will follow. This seems to be the one question you haven't asked.
      1. hm, well Ill have to get back to you on the load. i cant remember the exact size of each motor. Its a 240 pressure pump and a 240 well pump that run off these 24x280w 48v. Somebody sized it, so I assume its fine, he was also out here yesterday filling me in on some ideas too.

      ok Ill get the loads tomorrow and then we can figure out the batteries. (:

      2. Im calculating that the inverter will be providing about 30a by 30a ac or less to the panel of the building. Sound right?

      3. Do you think a 130ft loop with 12x280w 48v would work well with a 2/0 copper thhn? Thats what that wire size calculator seems to show me

      4. Do you think 80ft loop with 12x280w 48v would work well with a 1/0 copper thhn?

      THANKS! (:

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      • #18
        update on our 24x280w 48v system, and question

        Soo, this 24x280w 48v system will be running our 1 and half hp well pump and our 3hp pressure pump. Theyre both 240. So hopefully we've got enough juice. I know during the summer they have a tendency to pump almost all the time for our 5 acres of park like area. At night is when I water all the grasses which can take all night as the sprinklers are staggered to go on at different times ALL night long.

        QUESTION:
        1. Do you think these 10 $200 automotive like batteries would be able to keep the pressure pump going all night for sprinklers AND since the tank would lower, the well pump would run too. hm, I wonder if its enough batteries.. not knowing anything about batteries.

        Somebody also bought 10 big batteries today for this system, I duno what the ratings are.

        Somebody also bought 2k feet of 12 gauge wire to run instead of just using a few big 1/0 wires etc. So, well be cutting up a bunch of 12 gauges, which doesnt sound very fun, but o well.

        So thats my update for now. (:

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        • #19
          Man, you are over your head with this. Where are those pumps getting power now? Why do you want to add solar power and batteries to this system?
          CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Amy@altE View Post
            You are a long way from being ready to sizing the wire. Stop buying stuff and figure out the rest of the system first. .......
            What she said. Double.

            Forget knife switches. They will be welded/ruined on DC very quickly. Midnight makes DC rated high voltage breakers. The breakers go in boxes. The wires on the breakers HAVE to be installed with attention to proper polarity, or the breakers WILL burn up if tripped under power.

            You HAVE to engineer this install before going any further, you have a huge PV array , and at first glance, triple huge loads with those pumps.

            My well pump is rated 1/2 hp (in my .sig) and with loading, power factor and such, consumes 1,000W as clocked by the inverter control panel, which is pretty accurate. Extrapolating that ratio to your 4.5hp of pumps, gives an estimated load of 9,000 watts running, starting will be even more. Frankly, these pumps should be 208V, 3 phase, not simply 240V.

            I take it you pump from a well, to a storage tank, and then pressure pump from the tank to the water system ? What about an elevated tank (Water Tower) to get pressure from gravity, and then no night pumping ?

            Batteries to run the nightime pumping loads will be immense, like the bank on a submarine. Big $$$$

            You need a main transfer switch, and you need a backup generator, because if you loose sunlight, those batteries are going flat fast.

            I have also not heard ANY good things about AIMS inverters, which seems to be what the sticker in the photo you linked to, claims. (even as a boat anchor, they rust out quick).

            I DON'T have a good feeling about this. How do you power the pumps now ? You should be installing pure Grid Tie, not battery system. Have you had the power company evaluate your site for 3 phase power ? Over 1hp, you should consider 3 phase.
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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            • #21
              Originally posted by hollywoodtoday View Post
              Soo, this 24x280w 48v system will be running our 1 and half hp well pump and our 3hp pressure pump. Theyre both 240. So hopefully we've got enough juice. I know during the summer they have a tendency to pump almost all the time for our 5 acres of park like area. At night is when I water all the grasses which can take all night as the sprinklers are staggered to go on at different times ALL night long.

              QUESTION:
              1. Do you think these 10 $200 automotive like batteries would be able to keep the pressure pump going all night for sprinklers AND since the tank would lower, the well pump would run too. hm, I wonder if its enough batteries.. not knowing anything about batteries.

              Somebody also bought 10 big batteries today for this system, I duno what the ratings are.

              Somebody also bought 2k feet of 12 gauge wire to run instead of just using a few big 1/0 wires etc. So, well be cutting up a bunch of 12 gauges, which doesnt sound very fun, but o well.

              So thats my update for now. (:
              STOP BUYING STUFF!!! How are you going to wire 10 batteries in 48V? Get a professional involved NOW.
              Solar Queen
              altE Store

              Comment


              • #22
                Some folks you just can't reach.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Amy@altE View Post
                  STOP BUYING STUFF!!! How are you going to wire 10 batteries in 48V? Get a professional involved NOW.
                  I was struck by these statements: "hm, I wonder if its enough batteries.. not knowing anything about batteries.

                  Somebody also bought 10 big batteries today for this system, I duno what the ratings are."


                  I see very little hope for the Dance of Joy here. Maybe two of the batteries are spares? Perhaps the person who bought them can explain why they bought the batteries they did, and why they bought 10. Better than anyone here, anyway. I would take the big automotive type batteries back today, and then stop and design a system. If my buddy went off and bought big batteries, brought them to me and said "here, use these", I'm not sure what I would do. Go to the bar?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Living Large View Post
                    ... Maybe two of the batteries are spares?....
                    Which will be left sitting uncharged until they die?
                    SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                      Which will be left sitting uncharged until they die?
                      Agreed - that was tongue in cheek. Notice my overall message was to take the batteries back now, when it still may be possible.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I see that Im in over my now with this system lol but I have questions yet

                        The knife switches are rated for 200a which is what hes used as well, so I figured why not, theyre cheap however I will most likely just find a fused disconnect online and eliminate the knife switches. thanks for that.

                        As for the immense load, I was talking to him today about the load in the daytime and night, he hadnt thought of the immense night time load lol. So basically I need to tie in to the grid somehow or run only during the day of course. Is there anyway to use pg&e and solar at the same time?

                        Maybe we could use solar for the pumps during the day and at night use pg&e. Im kinda stuck at night without using pg&e I would suspect, what do you think? We simply cant run everything during the day, too many things would run at the same time and not have enough pressure. o brother ugh

                        yes we pump from a well into our tank, then the pressure pump pressurizes our property systems. The tanks are quite high. 2 10k gallon tanks, 15 foot high, so theres a little pressure, but no we cant elevate the tanks or buy something else.

                        As for AIMs, yes I would imagine its not the best quality, it was cheap, and everybody likes cheap.. haha to buy. So I duno how it will work out really.

                        The pumps are currently run by pg&e. We previously were pumping with a 48v pump that used like 6 panels, but we upgraded to the 1 1/2, then we upgraded the pressure pump also, to 3hp.

                        Ya, my grandfather went off and bought some batteries, I believe 8, I dont know what size. I suppose theyll be pretty useless, I dont know. If they only provide an hours worth of pumping at night, thats silly.

                        Maybe I can turn off the well pump with a light sensor then let the pressure pump work at night, may improve a little on the length of the batteries in the evenings. Prob not much. What do you think?

                        I may just need to hook everything 100% on timers, so Ive got it efficiently watering everyday only during the day. or a bigger pressure pump would be nice, but we already upgraded 3 times, now to the 3hp lol.

                        thx for the insights and laughs of course

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Living Large View Post
                          I was struck by these statements: "hm, I wonder if its enough batteries.. not knowing anything about batteries.

                          Somebody also bought 10 big batteries today for this system, I duno what the ratings are."


                          I see very little hope for the Dance of Joy here. Maybe two of the batteries are spares? Perhaps the person who bought them can explain why they bought the batteries they did, and why they bought 10. Better than anyone here, anyway. I would take the big automotive type batteries back today, and then stop and design a system. If my buddy went off and bought big batteries, brought them to me and said "here, use these", I'm not sure what I would do. Go to the bar?
                          I was also concerned with the statement that someone is using multiple strands of #12 wire instead of the larger #1/0 wire to meet the load's current draw requirements.

                          Paralleling small AWG gauge wire instead of using the proper AWG sized single wire is both dangerous and against code.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            OK, now we are getting somewhere. With PG&E service, you should be able to use your panels in a grid-tie system to offset some of your electric bill. None of the expense of buying and maintaining batteries, and all of the benefit of the power your panels can create. If this is a commercial enterprise, there may even be state incentives available beyond the federal investment tax credit.

                            Another benefit is in the wiring:
                            Each pole of 12 panels can be installed as a single string, with all the panels in series. That gets you a DC circuit Voc of 12 * 44.9 * 1.2 temp correction for 650 V. That is too high for a basic string inverter like a SMA SB6000TL-US-22 (or SB7000TL-US-22), but would work with a SolarEdge inverter and P400 optimizers, or micro-inverters, if you choose to go that route.

                            With SolarEdge, the DC current for the 12 panel string would be around 12 * 280W / 350 V = 9.6 A, and you could safely combine both strings together just ahead of the inverter and still not exceed 20 A.

                            Most of what you've bought could be returned... charge controllers, batteries, high current disconnects, etc. The money you get back could be spent on a licensed electrician or solar installer to design your system and make sure it meets PG&E's interconnect requirements.
                            CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              STOP! Buying the wrong thing because it is cheap is throwing away money and dangerous. STOP! Call a professional, explain what you are trying to do, which keeps changing with every post, and buy the right equipment. You will pay less for the right equipment than you waste with the wrong stuff.
                              Solar Queen
                              altE Store

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Amy@altE View Post
                                STOP! Buying the wrong thing because it is cheap is throwing away money and dangerous. STOP! Call a professional, explain what you are trying to do, which keeps changing with every post, and buy the right equipment. You will pay less for the right equipment than you waste with the wrong stuff.
                                Put another way, your goal would be for the Dance of Joy, and not a somber dirge, for example.

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