LivingLarge and Norhterner Looky Looky

[Sunking]

Here you go just what the doctor ordered.

48 volt 400 AH Lithium package deal

You want large, smaller, different voltage. just say what you want and I can find it.

--Mod Note: In case newcomers are wondering about posting direct sales links, regulars like Dereck (Sunking) are trusted to follow Forum rules against spamming and self-promotion and therefore are granted a lot more leeway posting links like this than any newcomer would ever get.

[Living Large]

Here you go just what the doctor ordered.

48 volt 400 AH Lithium package deal

You want large, smaller, different voltage. just say what you want and I can find it.

--Mod Note: In case newcomers are wondering about posting direct sales links, regulars like Dereck (Sunking) are trusted to follow Forum rules against spamming and self-promotion and therefore are granted a lot more leeway posting links like this than any newcomer would ever get.

Hey Dereck, thank you. I hadn't seen you posted this until today, but I remembered you volunteered to look around. Yes, I need to look around this site (SPT) more to stay tuned in. I did previously see this 400 Ah bank on that website.

I am wondering about 48V 500-600 Ah, to be honest. 600 Ah could be made from 300Ah cells, if someone is offering it. I had found 180 Ah batteries which I believe are CALB that I could use 3 of in parallel, and then build up a bank, adding a BMS, to make 540 Ah. If you can find something 48V 500-600 Ah off the shelf, I'd be thrilled. Thanks!

Don

[Jemplayer]

Here you go just what the doctor ordered.

48 volt 400 AH Lithium package deal

You want large, smaller, different voltage. just say what you want and I can find it.

--Mod Note: In case newcomers are wondering about posting direct sales links, regulars like Dereck (Sunking) are trusted to follow Forum rules against spamming and self-promotion and therefore are granted a lot more leeway posting links like this than any newcomer would ever get.

Yip, that's what we need, no more of these fla nonsense. Easy to charge, use 100%. I would Love a bank of these. 400ah of useable power, what a pleasure.

[SunEagle]

Yip, that's what we need, no more of these fla nonsense. Easy to charge, use 100%. I would Love a bank of these. 400ah of useable power, what a pleasure.

Looks good if you have spare $10,300 laying around and believe their claimed 4300 cycles at 100% DOD.

Or you can get a set of 8 Trojan L16RE 6v 370Ah battery with 1500 cycles (~4 years) at 50% DOD for under $3000 or 3 sets over 12 years and still spend less than that $10k for those LiFePO4 batteries.

I guess it is a matter of choice on how you want to spend your money. Let us know if you pull the trigger on that Lithium bank.

[Willy T]

Not to mention the shipping.

International door-to-door ocean shipping (6-8 weeks) and customs clearance is $1685.

[Jemplayer]

Looks good if you have spare $10,300 laying around and believe their claimed 4300 cycles at 100% DOD.

Or you can get a set of 8 Trojan L16RE 6v 370Ah battery with 1500 cycles (~4 years) at 50% DOD for under $3000 or 3 sets over 12 years and still spend less than that $10k for those LiFePO4 batteries.

I guess it is a matter of choice on how you want to spend your money. Let us know if you pull the trigger on that Lithium bank.

Yes, of course. I am speaking theoretically...I would love to have such efficient storage. No doubt claims are a bit out there. And yes take your point on fla's being most economic, just a lot of guess work with fla's.

[SunEagle]

Not to mention the shipping.

International door-to-door ocean shipping (6-8 weeks) and customs clearance is $1685.

There will be shipping costs for the Trojans as well and probably a price increase over the next 12 years. So my comparison is not very accurate.

I just wanted to throw out some numbers on two similar sized battery systems over a similar period of life and cost in today's $$$.

That Lithium bank is relatively new technology and looks pretty revolutionary so maybe a better chemistry (for a lower cost) is in the near future.

[Living Large]

There will be shipping costs for the Trojans as well and probably a price increase over the next 12 years. So my comparison is not very accurate.

I just wanted to throw out some numbers on two similar sized battery systems over a similar period of life and cost in today's $$$.

That Lithium bank is relatively new technology and looks pretty revolutionary so maybe a better chemistry (for a lower cost) is in the near future.

The price put me off. I think I could create my own bank for $1000-1500 cheaper.

As for the FLA vs LFP vs etc, new technology, etc, yeah we were over all that. I am still selecting a house site and on-grid/off-grid, but personally I would very likely go LFP, understanding the tradeoffs that have been discussed on this site - mostly under the LFP battery chatter thread.

[squerly]

Or you can get a set of 8 Trojan L16RE 6v 370Ah battery with 1500 cycles (~4 years) at 50% DOD for under $3000 or 3 sets over 12 years and still spend less than that $10k for those LiFePO4 batteries.

I would guess having batteries that could continue running mission critical devices on the 3rd sunless day (freezers, etc.) would be beneficial. The Trojan's would require generator charging or suffer damage due to excessive discharge.

[Living Large]

I would guess having batteries that could continue running mission critical devices on the 3rd sunless day (freezers, etc.) would be beneficial. The Trojan's would require generator charging or suffer damage due to excessive discharge.

The sizing of the bank, whether FLA, LFP, or any other chemistry, in anticipation of multiple days of clouds, is one of the variables. Additionally, max DOD you want for each chemistry. Some guess at how the life will be affected by the operating DOD range you choose. All these variables. Plus how long you want your gen set to have to run for under these conditions. I took all those except cycles into account - because # of cycles appears to be the most contested and least understood/documented parameter. Since lifetime cost is not the most important variable for me, I didn't mind pretty much ignoring # of cycles as a function of DOD.

[PNjunction]

Looks good if you have spare $10,300 laying around and believe their claimed 4300 cycles at 100% DOD.

I'd cut those in half to be realistic. And perhaps de-rate to 80% DOD.

Anyone can do repetetive hammer-cycling (with what an hour maybe between charge discharge) in a temperature controlled environment. All you are doing is "beating the clock" as Prof Jeffrey Dahn of Dalhousie U's lab points out, where real-life factors of unwanted parasitic reactions come into play over time and temp.

[Living Large]

I'd cut those in half to be realistic. And perhaps de-rate to 80% DOD.

Anyone can do repetetive hammer-cycling (with what an hour maybe between charge discharge) in a temperature controlled environment. All you are doing is "beating the clock" as Prof Jeffrey Dahn of Dalhousie U's lab points out, where real-life factors of unwanted parasitic reactions come into play over time and temp.

That was about what I was guessing. I didn't ignore cycles totally, because if it was something like 700 forget about it. And based on the knees in the curve and not tempting fate, I was looking at 80% DOD to 10% DOD - using 70% of capacity.

[Sunking]

I'd cut those in half to be realistic. And perhaps de-rate to 80% DOD.

Anyone can do repetetive hammer-cycling (with what an hour maybe between charge discharge) in a temperature controlled environment.

There is the catch people over look. Batteries have a time clock from the day they are assembled, and they have a number of cycles. Which ever one you reach first is the end of life. Example one of the best batteries out there for solar is the Rolls 5000 series. They are a solid 5 to 7 year battery or 10,000 cycles.

The mistake people make is they use cycle life to determine years. Doing that one would assume 10,000 cycles is 20 years or more. Not possible. If you wanna know how long the battery will last all you have to do is look at the Warranty. Rolls series 5000 is:

Failure within 36 months from the date placed in service yields FREE REPLACEMENT, not including freight charges from the factory to the applicable destination. After the first 36 months of service, defective batteries will be adjusted for a period of up to 120 months prorated from the date first in service at prices in effect at time of adjustment.. In other words 36/120

Sure Rolls can get 10,000 cycles, but to do that is accelerated testing using 10 to 24 cycles in a 24 hour period inside a lab under computer control. Most batteries like Trojan:

Signature line (T-105) carry 12/24,
Premium Line or RE carry 24/60
Industrial Line carry 36/96

Bottom line is you get what you pay for. If you want a 5 to 7 year battery you are looking at $200 to $240 per Kwh. Or you can get a 1 to 2 year battery for $100 to $120 per Kwh.