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  • Best battery providers (brands)

    Hello All;

    I would like to know the best (recommended) providers (factories or manufactures) for batteries to be used for solar, wind and UPS systems of 10 KWH, 20 KWH, 30 KWH, 40 KWH and 50 KWH.

    From the other side, I would be very thankful if someone advise me about the recommended batteries to be used (if to use lead acid or lithuim-ion or Ni).

    Appreciate the kindly help and thanks a lot in advance.

    Regards
    Bilal

  • #2
    since weight of the batteries is a factor, the location (reduced shipping) is a factor, or you spend n$ for battery and 3*n for shipping.

    Do you need high peak amps, or a 5 hour rate ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #3
      There is no best with respect to your conditions. You have conflicting applications. Solar Wind and other RE sources use deep cycle batteries to take a slow charge, and a slow deep discharge daily aka cycle every day. UPS is emergency standby where th ebatteries are made to be exhausted in 1 hour down to 15 minutes meaning extremely high discharge rate down to 80%DOD, and then be charged quickly like a car battery.

      Two completely different battery Technologies. Both would fail miserably if pressed into the others service application.
      MSEE, PE

      Comment


      • #4
        OK let us simplify things.

        We are talking about house and work appliances (TV, water cooler, Refrigerator, washing cloths, AC, lights, ... etc). The battery will be used minimum for 8 hours and in some cases it will be up to 14 hours. So even the UPS that I am talking about it, it will be used not for 1 hour or 15 min, but it will be used for the mentioned applications where is the load watt is about 1KW, 2KW and up to 5KW in case of high load.

        Basically I am looking for batteries of 150 AH, 200 AH, 250 AH and 300 AH.
        The watt hour will starting from 10 KWH and up to 60 or 70 KWH.

        So, all of them to be used for the same kind of applications.

        For any further information to declare the usage, I am ready to provide.
        Thanks for the kindly reply and help.

        Regards
        Bilal

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bghayad View Post
          OK let us simplify things.

          We are talking about house and work appliances (TV, water cooler, Refrigerator, washing cloths, AC, lights, ... etc). The battery will be used minimum for 8 hours and in some cases it will be up to 14 hours. So even the UPS that I am talking about it, it will be used not for 1 hour or 15 min, but it will be used for the mentioned applications where is the load watt is about 1KW, 2KW and up to 5KW in case of high load.

          Basically I am looking for batteries of 150 AH, 200 AH, 250 AH and 300 AH.
          The watt hour will starting from 10 KWH and up to 60 or 70 KWH.

          So, all of them to be used for the same kind of applications.

          For any further information to declare the usage, I am ready to provide.
          Thanks for the kindly reply and help.

          Regards
          Bilal
          The battery system for even that 10kWh load will be big. It needs to be a 48volt 1000Ah system probably comprised of 24 x 2volt 1000Ah FLA batteries at about $350 each. Building a battery system for 60 and 70 kWh would be very big and very expensive.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks a lot for advising and kindly reply.

            The battery system for even that 10kWh load will be big. It needs to be a 48volt 1000Ah system probably comprised of 24 x 2volt 1000Ah FLA batteries at about $350 each. Building a battery system for 60 and 70 kWh would be very big and very expensive.

            So two batteries, each of them is 24 v x 1000 AH and to be connected series. Right?
            How much the lifetime for this battery? 5 or 7 years?
            Is it lithium or lead acid?

            From the other side, if we calculated the 48 v x 1000 AH = 48 KWH, so why all of this and I need only 10 KWH? How much you considered the cycling for such battery?

            I am fully thanks for the kindly help and directing me.
            Regards
            Bilal

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bghayad View Post
              Thanks a lot for advising and kindly reply.




              So two batteries, each of them is 24 v x 1000 AH and to be connected series. Right?
              How much the lifetime for this battery? 5 or 7 years?
              Is it lithium or lead acid?

              From the other side, if we calculated the 48 v x 1000 AH = 48 KWH, so why all of this and I need only 10 KWH? How much you considered the cycling for such battery?

              I am fully thanks for the kindly help and directing me.
              Regards
              Bilal
              It is not two batteries, it is 24 batteries at 2 volts each.

              I have a similar 10 kwh demand, I have two bank of 48 volts total 750 AH, I cycle the batteries between 25 to 35% DOD. I hope my batteries will last me 5 years. The 2 volt 1000 AH batteries are the industrial type batteries, they will last more than 5 years if you take care of them and not discharge them down below 25% DOD all the times.

              Cheers.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bghayad View Post
                Thanks a lot for advising and kindly reply.




                So two batteries, each of them is 24 v x 1000 AH and to be connected series. Right?
                How much the lifetime for this battery? 5 or 7 years?
                Is it lithium or lead acid?

                From the other side, if we calculated the 48 v x 1000 AH = 48 KWH, so why all of this and I need only 10 KWH? How much you considered the cycling for such battery?

                I am fully thanks for the kindly help and directing me.
                Regards
                Bilal
                No. You need 24 batteries rated 2volts 1000Ah each.

                I sized the system based on your estimated daily usage of 10kWh which will probably be higher and closer to 12kWh. I also figured in a safety factor of only about 25% daily discharge. So the battery is 4 times your daily usage. You can use more than 25% each day but depending on the battery manufacturer recommendation you may not get the expected 4 to 5 year lifespan if you over use it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks really for replying and helping and advising me.
                  It is not two batteries, it is 24 batteries at 2 volts each.
                  And each battery of the 2volt, it is costing 350$? So the 24 batteries are costing 24 x $350 = 8400$??? This is too much.

                  I have a similar 10 kwh demand, I have two bank of 48 volts total 750 AH, I cycle the batteries between 25 to 35% DOD.
                  You considered the battery to have 750 AH because the cycle is 25%, right?
                  48 v x 750 AH = 36KWH and what you need is 10 KWH, so why you apply this system? Even with 50% cycle, you still have a lot of KWH and more than what you need. Or there is another method of calculations?

                  I hope my batteries will last me 5 years. The 2 volt 1000 AH batteries are the industrial type batteries, they will last more than 5 years if you take care of them and not discharge them down below 25% DOD all the times.
                  What do you mean by DOD?
                  What is the name of the provider of those batteries?
                  When you say industrial, you mean lithium?

                  Regards
                  Bilal

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bghayad View Post
                    Thanks really for replying and helping and advising me.

                    And each battery of the 2volt, it is costing 350$? So the 24 batteries are costing 24 x $350 = 8400$??? This is too much.


                    You considered the battery to have 750 AH because the cycle is 25%, right?
                    48 v x 750 AH = 36KWH and what you need is 10 KWH, so why you apply this system? Even with 50% cycle, you still have a lot of KWH and more than what you need. Or there is another method of calculations?



                    What do you mean by DOD?
                    What is the name of the provider of those batteries?
                    When you say industrial, you mean lithium?

                    Regards
                    Bilal
                    DOD is depth of discharge. Discharging your batteries more than 25% a day can shorten their life. This is why the system is rated 3 to 4 times what you use a day so you never discharge more than 30%.

                    Those industrial batteries are Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) type and do cost a lot of money. That is what I was trying to tell you that running those large kWh loads off of batteries get expensive. Not to mention the need for the solar panel wattage to be 1/4 to 1/2 times your kWh usage. So for the 10kWh you would need about 2500 watts of panel with 4 hours of "good" sunshine to recharge those batteries and maybe up to 5000 watts depending on where you live. Then add the cost of the Charge Controller between the solar panels and batteries and Inverter to change that 48 DC voltage to what you need to run your appliances.

                    This again all relates to just the 10kWh system. You can figure multiplying that cost 6 to 7 times for a 60 to 70kWh usage.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You really helped me a lot and gave me clear vision. I am fully thanks for you for the information you gave me.

                      Those industrial batteries are Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) type and do cost a lot of money.
                      Does it require to be filled by liquid?
                      And is it better than lithium?
                      Why you selected 2v battery and did not select battery of 24v?
                      Do you have picture for such batteries?

                      That is what I was trying to tell you that running those large kWh loads off of batteries get expensive. Not to mention the need for the solar panel wattage to be 1/4 to 1/2 times your kWh usage. So for the 10kWh you would need about 2500 watts of panel with 4 hours of "good" sunshine to recharge those batteries and maybe up to 5000 watts depending on where you live. Then add the cost of the Charge Controller between the solar panels and batteries and Inverter to change that 48 DC voltage to what you need to run your appliances.
                      Really still I need to know why you decided to apply 48 v on 750 AH as the required 10KWH and not 38KWH (because, 48 x 750 = 38 KWH). Basically if we applied 14 volt on 750 AH, we will get 10.5 KWH, and this 14 v can be obtained from 7 batteries where each one has 2 V. Can you please explain for me?

                      About the solar panels, charger and invertor: Do you advise for good provider?

                      Thanks too much.
                      Regards
                      Bilal

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bghayad View Post
                        And each battery of the 2volt, it is costing 350$? So the 24 batteries are costing 24 x $350 = 8400$??? This is too much.
                        A 2-volt 1000 AH entry level 3 year battery cost around $350 each. A good 5 year 2 volt 1000 AH battery is going to cost you more like $500 each. Just in battery cost alone each Kwh on a 3 year battery is around 80-cents, and 65-cents for a 5 year battery.

                        In the USA you can buy all the Kwh you want for around 11-cents.
                        MSEE, PE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bghayad View Post
                          Why you selected 2v battery and did not select battery of 24v?
                          Because there is no such thing as a 24 volt 1000 AH battery. Such a monster would weigh 1500 pounds. A 2 volt 1000 AH batteries weighs 120 pounds.
                          MSEE, PE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                            Because there is no such thing as a 24 volt 1000 AH battery. Such a monster would weigh 1500 pounds. A 2 volt 1000 AH batteries weighs 120 pounds.
                            And because putting twelve 2V 1000AH batteries in series to get 24V @1000AH (often done) is totally more practical than putting twelve 80AH 24V batteries in parallel to get 960AH @24V (a really bad idea....)
                            SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A 2-volt 1000 AH entry level 3 year battery cost around $350 each. A good 5 year 2 volt 1000 AH battery is going to cost you more like $500 each. Just in battery cost alone each Kwh on a 3 year battery is around 80-cents, and 65-cents for a 5 year battery.

                              In the USA you can buy all the Kwh you want for around 11-cents.
                              Do you mean that buying from the electrical company is cheaper than using solar energy?

                              Regards
                              Bilal

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