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  • #31
    Yes, those are nuts & tape, and yes, that's one of the clearer code violations. I threw that picture in just for fun. Fortunately, I inspected another job the other day that was quite nicely done. Helped rebuild my confidence in humanity

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    • #32
      Originally posted by inetdog View Post
      Which I guess GreenCodeInspector (I assume Green as in inexperienced rather than Green as in environmentally obsessed) will get to apply that from the inspector's side. I am sure that if somebody asks him for a Code section citation, he can just refer them to you.
      Dave that is easy peazy in Chapter 3 like 300.3 and 300.4

      What I see going on here and is a huge problem in the solar trades is you have non licensed untrained installers trying to do a electricians job. They are just plain ole everyday ignorant. A lot of the solar installers are roofers and home improvement General Contractors and do not know a thing about electrical. That is what happens when gubermont hands out free money.
      MSEE, PE

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
        Dave that is easy peazy in Chapter 3 like 300.3 and 300.4
        Well, 300.4 starts out with the familiar words "where subject to physical damage". That is probably the best thing that GCI can hang his hat on, in this case.
        But there is arguably already an override for that in 690.31(A) and (B), since the conductors are not readily accessible and USE-2 or PV wire is used. (The PV wire type is not even listed in Chapter 3 [2011], so it seems clear that this part of 690 is intended to override rather than add restrictions to the Chapter 3 rules.
        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
          What I see going on here and is a huge problem in the solar trades is you have non licensed untrained installers trying to do a electricians job. They are just plain ole everyday ignorant. A lot of the solar installers are roofers and home improvement General Contractors and do not know a thing about electrical. That is what happens when gubermont hands out free money.
          Actually, this was theoretically installed by a Master Electrician, and it's a permitted install with plans stamped by a PE. I can't really believe that a Master Electrician ever looked at this, but that's what they say. The PE's do some remarkably shoddy work too, btw. Not sure where the free money quote comes from, the economics of PV are getting pretty attractive...

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          • #35
            Originally posted by GreenCodeInspector View Post
            Actually, this was theoretically installed by a Master Electrician, and it's a permitted install with plans stamped by a PE. I can't really believe that a Master Electrician ever looked at this, but that's what they say. The PE's do some remarkably shoddy work too, btw. Not sure where the free money quote comes from, the economics of PV are getting pretty attractive...
            I stamp all kinds of PV drawings under retainer for cookie cutter designs solar contractors install. Just a hired gun. I have no control, nor do I really care if the contractor builds to specs or not. That is your JOB to see it was done correctly or not because I am not liable for the implement ion. That is what you and the contractor get paid for. I just push a peice of paper around the office and collect a check.

            There is all kinds of free money. If not there would be no solar period. Starts right with the FED 30% credit, followed by state gov and local utilities paying for equipment, and paying again with Net Metering. Second biggest fraud played on the public. Global warming rates #1 . In some states your neighbors pay as much as 75% for the luxury and rate payers have to pay higher electric rates to make up for utility losses. State regulators allow utilities to pass all them cost to the rate payers who cannot afford to take advantage of entitlement programs the goberment forced utilities to comply with. That is what all the Rucus is about in many states. The POCO is exposing the fraud the goberment is doing.

            Cash in while you can while the money is still free.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              I stamp all kinds of PV drawings under retainer for cookie cutter designs solar contractors install. Just a hired gun. I have no control, nor do I really care if the contractor builds to specs or not. That is your JOB to see it was done correctly or not because I am not liable for the implement ion. That is what you and the contractor get paid for. I just push a peice of paper around the office and collect a check.
              I realize a PE has no installation responsibilities, generally. I'm talking about PE's doing miserable, inadequate jobs at the parts they ARE supposed to do: calculating loads, adequacy of members, etc. I hope you do all that properly while you push your pieces of paper around.

              As for the rant, it's a wee bit off-topic, so we'll just leave it there.

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              • #37
                Another example-

                http://solarprofessional.com/sites/d...Wires-Roof.jpg

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by control4userguy View Post
                  Nasty looking!
                  [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                  • #39
                    I'm in the middle of an install. I have a suspicion installers will try this on me. Print reads "free air" so we'll see how they handle that.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by control4userguy View Post
                      I'm in the middle of an install. I have a suspicion installers will try this on me. Print reads "free air" so we'll see how they handle that.
                      Is "free air" like "free solar energy", I wonder?
                      SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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                      • #41
                        No, no. Free air means no conduit. Two things could happen here with the USE2. One is tie-wraps and the other is what you see in the photo above.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by control4userguy View Post
                          No, no. Free air means no conduit. Two things could happen here with the USE2. One is tie-wraps and the other is what you see in the photo above.
                          FYI, when I use this font I am making a joke, whether there is a smiley there or not.
                          SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

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                          • #43
                            Joke or not- neither way is what I'll accept. This specific practice seems to be indicative of the entire solar industry too.

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                            • #44
                              I saw a lot of that when I was working in 3rd world countries - where there were no inspections or the inspectors could easily be made happy - lousy way to go!
                              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by control4userguy View Post
                                I'm in the middle of an install. I have a suspicion installers will try this on me. Print reads "free air" so we'll see how they handle that.
                                Even running wires in "free air" require some type of suspension cable the wires need to be attached to every some many feet.

                                Maybe again some rules are overlooked depending on the voltage going through the cables like Teleco or CAT5 wire. They can be run pretty much in any direction and suspended a long way between rafters up in the attic since they are very low voltage.

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