On-and-Off Grid

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  • ChrisOlson
    Solar Fanatic
    • Sep 2013
    • 630

    #16
    Originally posted by inetdog
    There are relatively cheap (compared to transfer switches) interlock kits that can be attached to almost any design main breaker panel that prevent the main breaker and the generator breaker from being on at the same time. They are UL listed and most inspectors will approve them.
    Those are typically used for manually started gensets and the homeowner has to shut off high load circuits in the Main that the generator is not able to power before flipping the interlock to connect the genset to loads. That type of system is OK, if you're home to be able to fumble around in the dark, start and warm up a genset, then fumble your way to the basement in the dark with a flashlight with batteries that are almost dead, and flip all the breakers to bring it online.

    More typical in residential standby power systems is auto-start gensets with an automatic transfer switch that disconnects critical circuits from the grid and connects them genset power. The auto-start partial house standby power systems leave the heavy loads connected to grid power and never actually disconnect the grid from the Main. The Generac EZ-Switch is an example of this type of load transfer switching.

    Farms, factories, schools, hospitals and large businesses are typically the only applications where you will find transfer switches of sufficient quality and capacity to disconnect the grid from the Main and transfer loads to standby power. These types of transfer switches are minimum 200A rated for 50 kVA or larger gensets. The more expensive ones like Cummins PowerCommand systems cost over $100,000 because they sense when grid power comes back on, sync the generator with the grid after it's stable, then make the switch in under 16 milliseconds so inductive loads are not hit out-of-phase when the loads go back to grid power.

    More expensive inverters like Schneider XW/XW+ series can AC couple with GT inverters and build a standalone mini-grid so your GT inverters can work during a power outage, and the XW/XW+ will use the "sold" power from the GT's to charge battery banks. But the cost to do this is astronomical and way beyond practicality for a residential GT system.
    off-grid in Northern Wisconsin for 14 years

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    • sdold
      Moderator
      • Jun 2014
      • 1424

      #17
      Originally posted by fester225
      Does anybody know what a micro-inverter requires before it allows a solar panel to turn on? Is it just 120V 60Hz AC?
      Could I just turn on a battery powered inverter to get the panels going?
      Apparently Enphase microinverters (240V) are able to operate in some battery/inverter systems with no grid connected, but it looks pretty involved in their white paper on the subject which you can read here. Getting a battery/inverter and grid tie inverter to work together seems like getting two mean, nasty dogs that hate each other to go on a walk together. Maybe you can do it, but you have to really know their personalities. You have to be the inverter whisperer.

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      • kwilcox
        Solar Fanatic
        • Jul 2014
        • 136

        #18
        Here you go fester225:

        OutBack Power, headquartered in Bellingham, Washington and is the leading designer and manufacturer of advanced power electronics for renewable energy, back-up power and mobile applications. The Company is also a member of The Alpha Technologies -- a global alliance of companies that share a common philosophy: create world-class powering solutions for communication, commercial, industrial and renewable energy markets.
        4KW system featuring Suniva OPT265/Enphase M215

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        • inetdog
          Super Moderator
          • May 2012
          • 9909

          #19
          Originally posted by ChrisOlson
          That type of system is OK, if you're home to be able to fumble around in the dark, start and warm up a genset, then fumble your way to the basement in the dark with a flashlight with batteries that are almost dead, and flip all the breakers to bring it online.
          My idea of a good time, actually.
          Especially with lots of Li powered flashlights around, including two EDCs.
          SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

          Comment

          • ChrisOlson
            Solar Fanatic
            • Sep 2013
            • 630

            #20
            Originally posted by inetdog
            My idea of a good time, actually.
            Especially with lots of Li powered flashlights around, including two EDCs.
            You'd be surprised how unprepared off-gridders are for power outages. I mean, our power NEVER goes out.

            Here a couple weeks ago I was doing a firmware update for a system component, using the Conext ComBox. I uploaded the firmware file to the ComBox it verified and checked it as OK and identified the system component that it was going to upgrade. So I clicked Upgrade. There was a warning that popped up on my screen that I didn't read and clicked "OK". Our power went out. Including my laptop because the battery is no good in it and it only runs on the power brick.

            F R A A A A A C K K K K ! ! ! I forgot that when you update critical system components like AGS it shuts the entire power system down and puts it in standby so components that depend on other components don't start doing bad things.

            So I fumbled thru the house in the dark to the kitchen where I could see some light from the SCP and our tablet computer on the wall. My wife was sitting in the living room saying, "What did you do?" because her TV that she was watching went out.

            I said, "I didn't do nuthin"

            She says, "yes you did because you're always doin sumthin'....."

            I says, "yeah well - get off my back."

            I made it to the SCP and sure enough the system is locked down in standby. The tablet computer that's on the kitchen wall that monitors the system thru the ComBox was on so I grabbed that because it was putting out light. I got to the power room where there's a flashlight. But the batteries were dead in it. Our power never goes out, so who needs batteries in the flashlight?

            I saw the lights on the AGS was flashing like crazy as it got new software in it. Don't know how long this is going to take so I was going to flip the big lever on our 200A transfer switch to disconnect the inverter from the loads and connect the generator direct to loads, then make it another 80 yards in the dark to the generator room and get a genset started. Just a I grabbed that big lever the power came back on. The firmware upgrade was complete and the ComBox restarted our power system.

            When I came back in the house as I walked by the living room back to my office I told my wife in my most professional sounding manner I could muster, "fixed it".
            off-grid in Northern Wisconsin for 14 years

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