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Can I Add More Panels Without Adding Another Inverter?

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  • Can I Add More Panels Without Adding Another Inverter?

    Hello,

    Can anyone comment whether or not I have any capacity left in this system to add more solar panels without having to upgrade/add another inverter?

    Thanks so much.

    Kelly


    MS4024-PAE Magnum 4000 W INV/CHGR
    ME-ARC50 Remote
    CLASSIC 150 Midnite CHG Controller
    9 - i190P Invensun 190W Panels (VOC 33.20, VMC 26.20)
    4 - TS-1560 Tubular Solar 6V, 860 AH @ C5 Batteries or 1050 AH @ C20 (These are 2V batteries in sets of 3)
    ME-AGS-N Magnum Generator Start Module
    ME-BMK-NS Magnum Battery Monitor Kit
    Ecogen 6W Propane Tie-In Generator

  • #2
    Kelly you have me a bit confused with your question. I am familiar with your inverter; a 24 volt 4000 watt model right?

    It does not make any difference to the inverter what size the solar panel array is. The inverter gets its power from the batteries and never sees the panels or knows they are there. So no you do not need a larger inverter if you increase panel wattage. With this inverter you do not replace it. If you need more power than it can supply, you buy a second one and it will cascade onto the existing inverter giving you 8000 watts. Don't do that as that is 48 volt battery stuff. 4000 watts on 24 volts is really pushing things.

    Now with that said what does matter is the Midnite Solar charge controller and batteries do care what panel wattage you are running. With a 24 volt battery your Classic 150 can only input up to 2700 watts if you are running 90 volt Vmp input, so I hope your 9 panels are wired up 3 x 3 as that is the optimum configuration for those panels and this controller.

    Now for the good news you are running 9 x 190watts = 1710 watts which means you can add up to a possible 1000 more watts before reaching your controllers limit. Bad news is it has to be done in groups of 3 which will give you 4 x 3 configuration. That is about as high as you can go with your panels on this controller.

    Now onto batteries which make no sense to me. How can they be both 6 and 2 volts?

    4 - TS-1560 Tubular Solar 6V, 860 AH @ C5 Batteries or 1050 AH @ C20 (These are 2V batteries in sets of 3)


    I assume there are 3-2 volt cells per battery making 6 volts and you have 4 of them wired up in series to make 24 volts @ 1050 AH right?

    Pretty hefty battery and you are short a few watts and a charge controller to keep them up. But if you use your genny once a week to saturate them you can get away with it. Minimum panel wattage I would run on them is 2400 watts.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Sunking. It was my misunderstanding regarding the inverter versus the charger in terms of adding more panels. It was a quick conversation with the distributor and so I didn't get it quite right. Truthfully I'm still learning how all the parts of my system relate to one another but your explanation helps greatly. You are correct about the configuration of both the panels and my battery pack. 3 sets of 3 panels and 3-2 volt cells per battery making 6 volts and you have 4 of them wired up in series to make 24 volts @ 1050 AH.

      If I can ask you to spoon feed me one more time....I will go ahead and add another string of 3 panels to bring my watts up to 2700 watts to max out my charge controller. If as you say the inverter can handle up to 4000 watts (although not advisable) are you saying I could add another 1000 ish watts with another charge controller? Would that be too much?

      Thank you so much. It's greatly appreciated.

      Kelly





      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      Kelly you have me a bit confused with your question. I am familiar with your inverter; a 24 volt 4000 watt model right?

      It does not make any difference to the inverter what size the solar panel array is. The inverter gets its power from the batteries and never sees the panels or knows they are there. So no you do not need a larger inverter if you increase panel wattage. With this inverter you do not replace it. If you need more power than it can supply, you buy a second one and it will cascade onto the existing inverter giving you 8000 watts. Don't do that as that is 48 volt battery stuff. 4000 watts on 24 volts is really pushing things.

      Now with that said what does matter is the Midnite Solar charge controller and batteries do care what panel wattage you are running. With a 24 volt battery your Classic 150 can only input up to 2700 watts if you are running 90 volt Vmp input, so I hope your 9 panels are wired up 3 x 3 as that is the optimum configuration for those panels and this controller.

      Now for the good news you are running 9 x 190watts = 1710 watts which means you can add up to a possible 1000 more watts before reaching your controllers limit. Bad news is it has to be done in groups of 3 which will give you 4 x 3 configuration. That is about as high as you can go with your panels on this controller.

      Now onto batteries which make no sense to me. How can they be both 6 and 2 volts?



      I assume there are 3-2 volt cells per battery making 6 volts and you have 4 of them wired up in series to make 24 volts @ 1050 AH right?

      Pretty hefty battery and you are short a few watts and a charge controller to keep them up. But if you use your genny once a week to saturate them you can get away with it. Minimum panel wattage I would run on them is 2400 watts.

      Comment


      • #4
        We still gotta get you straightened out so you understand what is going on. To start in your mind disconnect Inverter size with panel, controller, and battery size.

        OK lets start with the inverter. It is rated 4000 watts. All that means is it can supply up to 4000 watts of power to your AC powered Gizmos if they are plugg in and turned on. It would be vary rare if you ever drew 4000 watts from it. For simplicity if all you have is a 100 watt light bulb turned on, the inverter is only supplying and burning 100 watts. In reality it uses a bit more due to conversion losses but don't dwell on that. Just understand the load is dynamic changing all the time from 0 watts up to a maximum of 4000 is needed.

        OF right now you have 9 x 190 watt panel = 1720 watts. If you add 3 more like panels only adds 570 watts for a total of 2290 watts. With those panels and configuration, 12 panels will be the limit. You ill not be able to go to 15 panels or 2850 watts as the controller has a max limit of 2700 watts. You might be able to get up to 14 panels if you re configure. Do you know your panel spec, most notable Vmp and Voc?

        You can add panels without doing anything to the controller, batteries, or inverter.

        As to your question, yes you can add another controller and double your panel wattage and it will not affect your inverter one bit. Batteries is another question as you would need larger batteries to handle that much power.
        MSEE, PE

        Comment


        • #5
          Ugh. I sometimes question WHY I did this. I feel like I'm in over my head. The dealer says do this and I say o.k. because I really don't understand how it all works. I really appreciate your help and I should be grateful that for the most part things have run smoothly.


          VMP 26.20 V
          VOC 33.20 V

          The dealer I purchased the original panels from doesn't have any more of those ones. I thing I would be looking at getting something different. I think I would be trying to get as close to the 2700 watts as I can with the addition of 3 extra panels.

          Thank you.

          K




          Originally posted by Sunking View Post
          We still gotta get you straightened out so you understand what is going on. To start in your mind disconnect Inverter size with panel, controller, and battery size.

          OK lets start with the inverter. It is rated 4000 watts. All that means is it can supply up to 4000 watts of power to your AC powered Gizmos if they are plugg in and turned on. It would be vary rare if you ever drew 4000 watts from it. For simplicity if all you have is a 100 watt light bulb turned on, the inverter is only supplying and burning 100 watts. In reality it uses a bit more due to conversion losses but don't dwell on that. Just understand the load is dynamic changing all the time from 0 watts up to a maximum of 4000 is needed.

          OF right now you have 9 x 190 watt panel = 1720 watts. If you add 3 more like panels only adds 570 watts for a total of 2290 watts. With those panels and configuration, 12 panels will be the limit. You ill not be able to go to 15 panels or 2850 watts as the controller has a max limit of 2700 watts. You might be able to get up to 14 panels if you re configure. Do you know your panel spec, most notable Vmp and Voc?

          You can add panels without doing anything to the controller, batteries, or inverter.

          As to your question, yes you can add another controller and double your panel wattage and it will not affect your inverter one bit. Batteries is another question as you would need larger batteries to handle that much power.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by kellystalker View Post
            VMP 26.20 V
            VOC 33.20 V

            The dealer I purchased the original panels from doesn't have any more of those ones. I thing I would be looking at getting something different. I think I would be trying to get as close to the 2700 watts as I can with the addition of 3 extra panels.
            Kelly you have 1710 watts of panels now right? You cannot get to 2700 watts with 3 panels. You raised a Red Flag when you said you cannot get any more panels of the same model. Any panels you add will have to at least match the Voc and Vmp. If not then it will take another controller to add panels.
            MSEE, PE

            Comment


            • #7
              I was afraid you would say that when you asked for the Voc and Vmp. I was thinking to myself it sounded just to easy to go out and buy 3 - 300w panels and be done with it. At least now I have a clearer idea of how to proceed. I really appreciate your help. Thank you.




              Originally posted by Sunking View Post
              Kelly you have 1710 watts of panels now right? You cannot get to 2700 watts with 3 panels. You raised a Red Flag when you said you cannot get any more panels of the same model. Any panels you add will have to at least match the Voc and Vmp. If not then it will take another controller to add panels.

              Comment


              • #8
                Kelly find panels with the same Vmp and Voc. The problem I suspect your panels are likely 54 cells? With 54 cells about as large as you can get is 200 watts. There are 300 watt panels out there ,but they are 72 cell panels with a Vmp of around 36 to 38 volts. See where I am going with this?
                MSEE, PE

                Comment


                • #9
                  I completely see where you are going with this. I will start the search for some similar panels with the same Voc and Vmp values. So that really only adds about 600 extra watts to my system(making it around 2300 watts) not even bumping it up to the minimum you were suggesting. Thankfully I do have a generator to charge the batteries up. I guess I can always dream about adding another 6 250watt panels with another charger at another time. When I win the lottery.

                  Thanks again.



                  Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                  Kelly find panels with the same Vmp and Voc. The problem I suspect your panels are likely 54 cells? With 54 cells about as large as you can get is 200 watts. There are 300 watt panels out there ,but they are 72 cell panels with a Vmp of around 36 to 38 volts. See where I am going with this?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Found Some Panels

                    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                    Kelly find panels with the same Vmp and Voc. The problem I suspect your panels are likely 54 cells? With 54 cells about as large as you can get is 200 watts. There are 300 watt panels out there ,but they are 72 cell panels with a Vmp of around 36 to 38 volts. See where I am going with this?
                    I just wanted to say thank you (in advance of my next question) for all of your help regarding the addition of extra panels to my system. After calling all over Canada I was finally able to find some of the same panels I already have. There are only 2 more of these panels in the whole of the country. Do you think I should buy them for backup? BTW, that's not my question . Your help is greatly appreciated.

                    Comment

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