it's ILLEGAL FOR ME2HAVE ELECTRICITY! Must I buy 17 TONS of surrette battery??

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  • IllegalElectricity
    Junior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 2

    it's ILLEGAL FOR ME2HAVE ELECTRICITY! Must I buy 17 TONS of surrette battery??

    Well I hope I have caught your attention! This is serious and no joke, if you want to, take the time to read the background info it is below in brackets {}; but basically I must have an (3600 watts or more) 240 volts or more OFF GRID SYSTEM! stored in batteries and more or less constantly available during at least every business hour. Government bureaucrats have decreed that my electricity is illegal and against code and forced me to remove it all just last week. I cannot operate my business illegally so I complied. I have an upright milling machine and must buy at least one if not two more to stay in business, these will require more than 240 volts. I also must weld also at 220 volts (even my incinerating toilet requires 3600 watts or 240 volts!). Now granted my demands for electricity are not always that severe, but I easily had a $450 to $550 per month electricity bill. My plan WAS to buy a step up machine to meet the needs of the upright milling machines, but now that it is illegal for me to have electricity, I might as well become my own power company and go for the best possible off grid system to get away from the bureaucrats regulations. Currently trying to survive on 8700 watt predator generators from harbor freight.

    Ok so I was looking at the 10 year guaranteed Rolls Surrette 2volt batteries at $1000 each! (I mean if I am going to have to do this it needs to be only once a decade.) If I need more than 240 volts++ available on constant demand won't I need at least 120 of these batteries?? especially to provide 240 volts in storage? And while the space for that many batteries seems quite reasonable, as they appear to only take up a space of 20 feet by 6 feet, or more likely 10 feet by 12 feet, what is quite unreasonable is the WEIGHT! Each battery weighs 285 pounds so 120 of them are 34,200 pounds OR 17 SHORT TONS! Can this be true? Will I have to spend over a hundred thousand dollars to store 240 volts on demand in 17 tons of batteries? And what is ALMOST as bad, is that I will also have to have a polar mounted rack system that is FIFTEEN FEET IN THE AIR! It apparently will have to be at least 26 feet wide and 88 feet long to hold the solar panels, and - at that size and expense - have to track the sun; so I have serious concerns about the wind! My hope was actually to store the batteries on the same rack as the panels, but at 17 tons that is clearly out. But what type of system will I have to have to hold and preserve 17 tons of batteries while they sit on the ground? Oh I suppose we could spread them out more all over on the ground as the polar rack system will be almost 70 feet from the machines, but that seems problematic as well; and it does get cold on the ground at night, at least with them bundled together we could heat and blanket them to keep them warm. As you can tell I am completely lost on these issues. The one thing that is absolutely certain is that the lack of electricity has destroyed our business; we therefore cannot afford to move anywhere. We are stuck here and struggling, in the about to be hot Central Valley of California, some wind but not enough to be viable I think. I suppose we could bore a tunnel to the center of the earth for some of that energy, but that will be at least as expensive. If you happen to have one of those decommissioned Con Ed plants laying around that might work. But any of your suggestions would be welcomed. How many hundreds of lithium ion batteries will it take to crank out a consistent 240 volts??

    (Our business is making everything comply with ADA ACCESSIBILITY WITHOUT HAVING TO SPEND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN EXPENSIVE MODIFICATIONS! With us and our inventions you don't have to spend $8500 to widen your doorways, or spend $45,000 to modify your Van or SUV! We can bring full ADA ACCESSIBILITY for just a few thousand dollars to businesses and homes and transportation to help disabled persons find a better life. We invented an 18 pound lift that can be moved anywhere to help a disabled person into the bathtub, swimming pool, hot tub, bedroom, kitchen, or any motorized transportation; and here's what is truly great our LONE ONE LIFT can modify all these places at the same time saving you ten times its costs. We have even placed our lifts into the cabs of Semi-trucks, you know, the big 18-wheelers, and as small and tight as the new Corvette ZR-1 or the OLD STYLE original MINI-COOPER! And any RV or SUV, or Van in between. Yes that is true too, only 18 pounds of machinery can lift a 275 pound person and for heavy duty persons we have a 38 pound system! Unfortunately, the disabled persons as a class are not wealthy, on fixed incomes, and mostly do not work or earn any income and so our margins are razor thin and the lack of being able to manufacture our own equipment and our own invention is truly about to destroy us! We work very hard trying to help a very large number of disabled persons, and if you can help us you will also in effect be helping all of those and hopefully thousands of others in the future, so your efforts can truly multiply. I will try to load some pictures at the end of this request, so you can better see what we do.)

    {BACKGROUND INFORMATION - So about 15 years ago a man bought some extraordinarily cheap land and built a boat dealership. Now WHILE IT IS CLEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE ANY INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THIS LAND IS IN A FLOODPLAIN, obviously this man clearly unquestionably KNEW he was buying floodplain land because first it was so cheap and much more importantly because he constructed his own one-story building on steel stilts 15 feet up in the air to comply with the floodplain building code, and to open his boat dealership, because that was all he was allowed to do! Well, then several years passed and several other occupants built several other steel-framed rooms UNDERNEATH the one story building 15 feet up in the air, now making it a uniform, normal appearing TWO STORY building. And so by the time we came along exactly one year ago everything was in place to defraud us! A huge metal shop, shop office, four or five huge steel rollup doors, bathrooms, refrigerators, hot water heaters and everything INCLUDING ELECTRICITY everywhere. It looked like the perfect shop for us. But not long after relocating we applied for a business license to operate, and were inspected and denied because we were out of code?? It turns out that because the building was in a floodplain everything below that original construction was illegal and had to be removed, including the electricity! Through months of arguing we were able to keep the overhead lights attached to the base of the legal upper floor, and the surrounding lower floor walls for STORAGE ONLY, the electricity had to be removed! We fought but lost, that has now been decided and we will never ever be able to have any electrical utility company provide us electricity! But, we can, as long as it is FIFTEEN FEET UP IN THE AIR, build our own electrical power plant. Any advice you can supply toward that end will be greatly appreciated} Thank you very much for taking the time to read this!





    Last edited by inetdog; 04-14-2014, 08:25 PM. Reason: cleaned up attachment link placement a bit. Image links would have been easier for viewers though....
  • Sunking
    Solar Fanatic
    • Feb 2010
    • 23301

    #2
    Why on earth would any business want to take anything off-grid if you have commercial power available? It makes absolutely no sense. Anything you take off grid is going to cost you 5 to 10 times more than buying the power for the rest of your life. So why on earth would you want a 500 to 1000% increase on your energy bill? That would be like paying a mediocre machinest $300/hour when you can get the best machinest for $30/hr. That is just plain nuts.

    You are not going to get 10 years on a Rolls battery period, 5 with excellent care, and maybe 7 if kept in an air conditioned building with professional maintenance and daily care. Battery cost alone are 400 to 500% more than buying it from the POCO. For each Kwh of daily use on a Rolls 5000 series will cost you roughly $1200. At five years you will get 1825 Kwh of power from it if you could even remotely utilize that every day which you cannot. That means just in battery cost alone you are paying $1200/1825 Kwh = $0.658 per Kwh all up front in cash. Or you can buy it from the POCO for around 10 to 15 cents. Then in 5 years replace the battery at even higher cost. In biz that is called suicide.
    MSEE, PE

    Comment

    • IllegalElectricity
      Junior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 2

      #3
      We cannot access any conventional commercial power, it is illegal here! due to CODE!

      Well that's just exactly the problem here, there is absolutely no commercial electricity available. The land should have never been developed, the building should have never been built. it cannot be legally electrified from any public utility. It can only be powered OFF GRID, it is illegal, against the code, unlawful for us to have commercial electricity from any public power entity, and to be honest with you I expect a major fight with them even if we build our electricity FIFTEEN FEET IN THE AIR. Even if you build a power plant across the street you could not legally run us a wire and give us free electricity as it would violate the building codes and void our business license. we must have a legal business license to conduct business. WE CANNOT LEGALLY HAVE CONVENTIONAL ELECTRICITY, WE MUST GENERATE IT OURSELVES IN HOUSE, OFF GRID, FREE FROM GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATIC REGULATIONS!

      Comment

      • SolarShadow
        Junior Member
        • Oct 2013
        • 26

        #4
        Sad to say I don't think solar is conducive for you to provide such large loads and the costs involved in obtaining the necessary solar equipment. Even if you could manage the costs, it would be better spent on buying another place that you can operate from with utility electric available. You got burned and you have too many roadblocks with using the place you have.

        Comment

        • Mike90250
          Moderator
          • May 2009
          • 16020

          #5
          Seek a consult with a Real Estate attorney. This info should have been told to you in escrow - along with permitted and un-permitted structures. I would guess at your agent loosing their license at very least. Best, the sale is unwound and you get to try again.
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

          Comment

          • russ
            Solar Fanatic
            • Jul 2009
            • 10360

            #6
            Stockton, California - You got yourself into a losing situation and are trying to play outlaw. Then you will whine when the government shuts you down?
            Last edited by russ; 04-15-2014, 09:12 AM. Reason: modified
            [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

            Comment

            • Wy_White_Wolf
              Solar Fanatic
              • Oct 2011
              • 1179

              #7
              Even off grid systems are regulated by code in California. Putting one in below the flood plane level would be just as illegal as the grid power. You would still be denied a business lisence.

              WWW

              Comment

              • russ
                Solar Fanatic
                • Jul 2009
                • 10360

                #8
                Originally posted by IllegalElectricity
                = FREE FROM GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATIC REGULATIONS!
                Outside of having a wild rant you seem be in deep trouble - the regs are there for a reason even if people are often unable to understand. Of course if you go live in a cave in the mountains you can get away with more.

                I have lived in many places where there were no regulations or standards - where people did what they wanted and made a fantastic mess of it.
                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                Comment

                • organic farmer
                  Solar Fanatic
                  • Dec 2013
                  • 644

                  #9
                  Sell the land and move.
                  4400w, Midnite Classic 150 charge-controller.

                  Comment

                  • Sunking
                    Solar Fanatic
                    • Feb 2010
                    • 23301

                    #10
                    Originally posted by organic farmer
                    Sell the land and move.
                    Ditto sell to a sucker.
                    MSEE, PE

                    Comment

                    • billvon
                      Solar Fanatic
                      • Mar 2012
                      • 803

                      #11
                      Originally posted by IllegalElectricity
                      Well I hope I have caught your attention! This is serious and no joke, if you want to, take the time to read the background info it is below in brackets {}; but basically I must have an (3600 watts or more) 240 volts or more OFF GRID SYSTEM!
                      1) If you are in a floodplain it is unlikely that anyone will sign off on an off-grid system either. (They're even more dangerous when that flood comes along.)

                      2) Trying to do this off-grid will probably make you unhappy anyway.

                      3) Sounds like you have a good case against the person you bought from. If the property was being represented as a legal commercial site, then that's fraud.

                      Comment

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