Urban Solar power

[Mike90250]

you have to be careful with the automotive Jump Start packs. Assume they have a GEL battery, unless they state it is AGM. Gel batteries can only take a trickle charge, or you "boil" the gel and create gas pockets and that reduces the battery capacity. Look at the wall wart charger, it's output (molded in fine print, black on black) and see what it's power output is, that is the safe limit to recharge the pack with, unless the manual says something else.

[onezee20]

Hi Mike ... The manual says it take 34 hours to charge the battery from the wall pack AC and do not exceed that time. So I guess I would have to time it. What I don't know is how to figure out that time when charging from a solar panel.... Thanks for you help....

[onezee20]

you have to be careful with the automotive Jump Start packs. Assume they have a GEL battery, unless they state it is AGM. Gel batteries can only take a trickle charge, or you "boil" the gel and create gas pockets and that reduces the battery capacity. Look at the wall wart charger, it's output (molded in fine print, black on black) and see what it's power output is, that is the safe limit to recharge the pack with, unless the manual says something else.

The manual says its a sealed lead acid battery... I don't know the difference between a gel and other batteries.... Is there a thread on that?

[Mike90250]

Hi Mike ... The manual says it take 34 hours to charge the battery from the wall pack AC and do not exceed that time.....

You don't figure it out. It's most likely a gel, and not suitable for solar recharge in 5 hours.

What you could try, is cracking open that duracell kit that's not holding charge, yank the battery (carefully) and try to find a replacement battery (AGM) that will fit in the space. You may even find a
tab in the battery compartment, that breaks off, to use a larger battery in the same case.
The new battery should have specs, charge/discharge rates, cyclic recharge voltage, standby float voltage. then put it all back together as an educational project. Good as new! I've got a tired Peak 600 pack I use for my CPAP, and I need to refresh the battery in it myself.

[thastinger]

We replaced the battery in my FIL's Shuemacker (sp) power pack and it was a 22Ah SLA.
I'd expect them all to be SLA as that is a cheaper option than GEL for the manufacturers and still does the job.

[onezee20]

Hey thastinger ..... Sorry I was not answering sooner but had to chase some overtime at work.. So I could pay for this stuff and also spend time giving the right answers.

1. I would be fine with just using my tablet and cell phone... don't need the laptop...
2. I also have a Cen Tech 5 in 1 power back and my CPAP is running 2 days so far and could probably get 4 but definitely 3....
3. I have had that Duracell pack for years and after trying to use it for the CPAP I can see it is loosing its charge by 30% in 1 1/2 days with no use at all. Will have to get a second CenTech power pack... They are cheap at HF..
4. I will find the 12v Trojan battery.. what size would I need?
5. I plan to buy the solar panel online and if you could recommend a place that would be good .. Otherwise I will by it from Instapark. (I don't know how to put links on here).
6.As for my BOB,I have an Instapark 27 w foldable panel with a small battery pack they bundle with it... I have to say that its cool.. I experimented with it outside.. Takes 12 hours to charge the pack and the battery pack will charge my phone 5 times and tablet 2 times before it needs to be recharged...I can also charge the battery by AC in 2 hours... So I just charge it and leave it..
7. I can and cannot be around to charge the battery from solar panel... I have a 20A charge controller from Instapark.. I don't know if their stuff is quality but the stuff I already bought works... I would rather say I cant be around... During Sandy the power in Brooklyn was out for 8 days in my area but back on in NYC in a day so I had to go to work even though power was out at home.....
8. When I say portable I mean putting stuff in my Trailblazer 4x4...

I would still like to make up a Marine battery setup..Can ANY size Solar panel be used on an application. IE. A 200 watt panel to charge a Duracell 600 battery pack? Or do I have to size the panel to the storage unit whether its a Duracell battery pack or a Marine battery?

I hope I was clear enough with my answers to the questions and thanks again.....Ray

We replaced the battery in my FIL's Shuemacker (sp) power pack and it was a 22Ah SLA.
I'd expect them all to be SLA as that is a cheaper option than GEL for the manufacturers and still does the job.

Hi can you take a look at my above post and let me know what my next move can be.. Thanks

[thastinger]

Sure but let's slow down a bit because I'm not certain on what your desires are. You mentioned "portable" before. A couple of big 12V batteries and 400Watts of panels aren't what I would consider portable. From the loads you listed, there isn't a need for the big 12V batteries, the jump boxes will do everything you need. If you would prefer to go with the larger 12V batteries just say so and we'll figure out what equipment you need but here is something to consider.
- the jump boxes can be recharged with an 85W panel, it costs 140 shipped and would recharge the box in 4-5 hours
- the larger 12V batteries are going to require a much more detailed and powerful recharge system if your desire is to recharge one in one day. You need real power to do that, as much as 400 watts of panels if using an MPPT charge controller. The batteries will be 150 each becauase you don't have cores to turn in and you're probably talking 5-600 for the panels shipped, then you need a 20A CC, some wiring/clamps and a decent small PSW inverter so now you're up well over 1000 dollars. Do you want to spend that much or do you want to stick with what you have and get a panel to recharge the jump boxes?

[onezee20]

Hi Thastinger I am looking for something like these units http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...ontent=160x600 Xantrex 802 1500 ... Duracell 1800 or Goal Zero Yeti

If you think I am better off buying 3 premade Battery packs ,I will do that. Then I would just get a large enough panel to charge them... truthfully I would like to play and make one myself. that is just as good or better than the above. I have a source for electrical wires.. I have a 20A charge controller.. 750w power inverter. I watched about 30 DIY videos on youtube but they don't tell the actual parts to use/buy . After stumbling on this sight ,I realize there is a lot more than just putting some components together. If I am going to spend money I would like to buy good parts...

Thanks Ray

[thastinger]

That thing is just pure crap.
If you drained the battery down to 50% it would take that dinky panel 3.5 days of cloudless days to recharge it, a full week if fully discharged.

I do think it's important to decide if you want "portable" or if you want "moveable" because they mean different things. The fact is, you just can't get around that batteries are heavy and solar panels are big (of adequate wattage to actually do anything).

Observation - it doesn't sound to me like you need a solar panel(s) at all. If you bought a couple of nice 12V true deep cycle batteries and kept them charged, you could get a week out of each battery, maybe a bit more. I wouldn't think that you could stay at your present location for even that long if there was no power; due to civil unrest. Agree?

Have a look at these http://www.trojanbattery.com/markets/re/12v/ A couple of these, good quality PSW 300W inverter, 12V car adapter and decent wall charger for them and you're set.
You could buy a pelican case or even an ice chest on wheels with a handle and build the same thing as that HF unit for a lot less money.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Island-Breeze-MaxCold-50-Qt-Roller-Cooler/24413809

[onezee20]

That thing is just pure crap.
If you drained the battery down to 50% it would take that dinky panel 3.5 days of cloudless days to recharge it, a full week if fully discharged.

I do think it's important to decide if you want "portable" or if you want "moveable" because they mean different things. The fact is, you just can't get around that batteries are heavy and solar panels are big (of adequate wattage to actually do anything).

Observation - it doesn't sound to me like you need a solar panel(s) at all. If you bought a couple of nice 12V true deep cycle batteries and kept them charged, you could get a week out of each battery, maybe a bit more. I wouldn't think that you could stay at your present location for even that long if there was no power; due to civil unrest. Agree?

Have a look at these http://www.trojanbattery.com/markets/re/12v/ A couple of these, good quality PSW 300W inverter, 12V car adapter and decent wall charger for them and you're set.
You could buy a pelican case or even an ice chest on wheels with a handle and build the same thing as that HF unit for a lot less money.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Isla...ooler/24413809

You are Right .. I mean movable . I did not know that there was a difference. Yes, if I could just buy batteries and keep the charged and they last a whole week each, I would not need a solar panel. I would still like to be able to charge the batteries with a solar panel if need be . One question . Can a panel be too big for a battery and how do I charge the Duracell power pack with a solar panel? If I had an 85 watt panel ,would it charge that and how do I know when to stop charging?

Thanks Ray

During Sandy people went without electricity for weeks. Its took that long in some places to get it back on again and there was not enough places to go since there also were so many homes destroyed.Those people needed permanent places to live for a while. I just stayed put because I was told a week and I am alone so no big deal. I still had a stove and water.

[onezee20]

That thing is just pure crap.
If you drained the battery down to 50% it would take that dinky panel 3.5 days of cloudless days to recharge it, a full week if fully discharged.

I do think it's important to decide if you want "portable" or if you want "moveable" because they mean different things. The fact is, you just can't get around that batteries are heavy and solar panels are big (of adequate wattage to actually do anything).

Observation - it doesn't sound to me like you need a solar panel(s) at all. If you bought a couple of nice 12V true deep cycle batteries and kept them charged, you could get a week out of each battery, maybe a bit more. I wouldn't think that you could stay at your present location for even that long if there was no power; due to civil unrest. Agree?

Have a look at these http://www.trojanbattery.com/markets/re/12v/ A couple of these, good quality PSW 300W inverter, 12V car adapter and decent wall charger for them and you're set.
You could buy a pelican case or even an ice chest on wheels with a handle and build the same thing as that HF unit for a lot less money.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Igloo-Isla...ooler/24413809

Ok.. I see what you mean now. After looking at the Trojan site ,I see that batteries there can weight over 150 pounds. Didn't even realize that. To charge one of those big boys would take a lot. I am getting a good education .. Thanks

[thastinger]

Yeah, if you bought an 85W panel that was 17V and 4.8A that panel could charge one of the jump boxes directly. Charging one without a charge controller is not an exact science as you need a decent idea as to how far down the battery is drained and then you kinda need to convert that in your head and check the battery every hour until you get close then more often or just get it to 75% and call it good. You could buy a little 5A charge controller but that will take your 85W panel down to a 60W panel, but it adds automation. I might go that route as one of those panels is only about 140 shipped and is small enough to be moveable.
I consider portable something I can take with me without a vehicle, everything else is moveable with the proper equipment. I.E. I don't tell peeps I have a portable washing machine.
If you desire to recharge those big 12V batteries, that is going to run into a bit more money, can surely be done though.

[thastinger]

an easy mindframe to adopt when you're just starting out is to think of batteries as pounds of energy storage potential. Your jump box is portable becuase it has a 22Ah battery that weighs 15 pounds not a 125Ah battery that weighs 150lbs. Think of 12V panels the same as you would a 2/6/10A wall charger for the same battery. A 12V panel will output 17V so if it is 85W that means it outputs 5A(ish) under perfect(lab) conditions, if you wanted to put a 10A charge into a battery then you would need a 170W panel to do that. So then you can backtrack that to the size of the battery if you understand the charge rates. A C8-C12 charge rate is best for longevity of a FLA battery so if you shoot for a middle ground of C10 you can determine that to charge a 125Ah battery at a C10 rate you would need to supply a 12.5A charge to it so that would be a 200W panel just for that one battery. Knowing all that, if you drained that 125Ah battery to 50% and supplied it with a C10 charge rate via a 200W panel, it would take 6 hours to recharge it...simple enough right?

[onezee20]

Yeah, if you bought an 85W panel that was 17V and 4.8A that panel could charge one of the jump boxes directly. Charging one without a charge controller is not an exact science as you need a decent idea as to how far down the battery is drained and then you kinda need to convert that in your head and check the battery every hour until you get close then more often or just get it to 75% and call it good. You could buy a little 5A charge controller but that will take your 85W panel down to a 60W panel, but it adds automation. I might go that route as one of those panels is only about 140 shipped and is small enough to be moveable.
I consider portable something I can take with me without a vehicle, everything else is moveable with the proper equipment. I.E. I don't tell peeps I have a portable washing machine.
If you desire to recharge those big 12V batteries, that is going to run into a bit more money, can surely be done though.

Hi Thestinger, First of all ,you are being very patient and helpful. I want to say thanks and I mean, THANKS. I know that you are trying to keep my costs down and stop me from spending money on stuff I might never use. Like buying a Maserati for the Brooklyn streets is not practical but some people do it anyway. I would like to go for it and build a boxed unit with one of those Trojan batteries. I am sure by what you are saying, that a unit with one of those batteries, even one of the smaller one would be better than that Xantrex or HF unit.. I have a 20A charge controller but would want to get rest. I can use the cooler because those Pelican boxes are expensive...lol

Thanks
Ray

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH6LXZCw1Ag

I just found this.. How about building something like this?

[onezee20]

an easy mindframe to adopt when you're just starting out is to think of batteries as pounds of energy storage potential. Your jump box is portable becuase it has a 22Ah battery that weighs 15 pounds not a 125Ah battery that weighs 150lbs. Think of 12V panels the same as you would a 2/6/10A wall charger for the same battery. A 12V panel will output 17V so if it is 85W that means it outputs 5A(ish) under perfect(lab) conditions, if you wanted to put a 10A charge into a battery then you would need a 170W panel to do that. So then you can backtrack that to the size of the battery if you understand the charge rates. A C8-C12 charge rate is best for longevity of a FLA battery so if you shoot for a middle ground of C10 you can determine that to charge a 125Ah battery at a C10 rate you would need to supply a 12.5A charge to it so that would be a 200W panel just for that one battery. Knowing all that, if you drained that 125Ah battery to 50% and supplied it with a C10 charge rate via a 200W panel, it would take 6 hours to recharge it...simple enough right?

No ,Not Simple. LOl I thought Panels were sold by the watts. I kind of get what you mean... But Its going to take a while to learn all this.