Federal rebate on solar install

[silversaver]

I don't believe The CSI situation is quite that simple. In some areas, the money has expired. Others like SDG & E territory, The $$'s ran out so other sources were re-allocated - probably enough to last another 3-6 months depending on demand/how many systems sold. Also, the $.20/Watt is/was the max. before reductions for panel eff./orientation/other stuff. The actual was probably closer to $.15 $.18/Watt or less for a lot of shading or way off south orientation. As for that matching CSI nonsense, why not just reduce the price up front ?

Yes, for SDGE area the money has been re-allocated but not for long. The CSI money is base on web calculation.

I would prefer the installer offer the credit after 90 days, because if they offer the discount out front you would lost the 30% tax credit from Fed incentive. agree? You actually getting more discount.

For example

If solar Job cost you $10,000. Let's say your CSI money is $500

Usually it will be $10,000 - $500 = $9,500
Fed incentive of 30% will be $9,500 X 30% = $2,850.
You net price will be $9500 - $2850 = $6,650

Now without the CSI or installer's rebate after 90 day:

Solar job $10,000
Fed incentive of 30% will be $3000
Your net price is $10,000 - $3,000 = $7,000
after 90 days you get $500 from installer
actual net price is $7,000 - $500 = $6,500

It is not much differnt but you get the idea of $6,650 vs $6,500

[PenguinSolar]

Splitting rebate across years?

Got an interesting question.

If your installation is going to span years do you just file per year for the Fed Credit? I recall you can't claim unless the expense is incurred in the filing year.

For instance you install starting Dec 30th but work won't complete till Jan 2nd. Typically it's half of the remaining balance at start of install and the final payment at completion.

My other strategy would just go ahead and pay of Dec 30th and then also on Dec 31st so all payments are occurred this year and it's clean.

Of course this approach exposes me the homeowner as once the installer gets all my money I have no leverage (although the installer is large and reputable Slvn Solar).

Wondering if anyone knows and has any recommendations.

Additionally, I'll need to also back out the utility rebate (CSI) off the top although won't know that exact amount till later (but hopefully before 4/15).

Thanks!

[J.P.M.]

Yes, for SDGE area the money has been re-allocated but not for long. The CSI money is base on web calculation.

I would prefer the installer offer the credit after 90 days, because if they offer the discount out front you would lost the 30% tax credit from Fed incentive. agree? You actually getting more discount.

For example

If solar Job cost you $10,000. Let's say your CSI money is $500

Usually it will be $10,000 - $500 = $9,500
Fed incentive of 30% will be $9,500 X 30% = $2,850.
You net price will be $9500 - $2850 = $6,650

Now without the CSI or installer's rebate after 90 day:

Solar job $10,000
Fed incentive of 30% will be $3000
Your net price is $10,000 - $3,000 = $7,000
after 90 days you get $500 from installer
actual net price is $7,000 - $500 = $6,500

It is not much differnt but you get the idea of $6,650 vs $6,500

I believe I understand. As a matter of fact, that logic was one of the first things I thought of when I reviewed the first proposal from that vendor that had their "reward bucks" as part of my HOA duties of reviewing/recommending solar jobs. Sort of a blinding flash of the obvious you might say.

At the time the thought occurred to me that the scheme could amount to something more than tax avoidance.

I didn't fall off a turnip truck last week and I try not to be a moral blue nose. I also like to be respectful in my opinions about others - in this case by starting out thinking most folks have a clue about their tax liabilities and responsibilities and would rather be honest about it, at least at the start. The logic I came up with, pretty much identical as presented above seems to infer people think and will behave otherwise given the chance. Maybe the vendor will send a 1099 and keep the customer off the horns of a moral and perhaps fiscal dilemma. If so, the delay of discount seems a bit silly as the tax liability will likely be similar as a first approximation - money falling over to the next tax year, etc. So, to what end ?

FWIW, I have had contact with my neighbors who have used that vendor as part of my HOA duties, but have not mentioned or discussed their taxes as that is absolutely none of anyone else's business.

Any IRS auditors out there ? NU ??

[Volusiano]

Got an interesting question.

If your installation is going to span years do you just file per year for the Fed Credit? I recall you can't claim unless the expense is incurred in the filing year.

For instance you install starting Dec 30th but work won't complete till Jan 2nd. Typically it's half of the remaining balance at start of install and the final payment at completion.

My other strategy would just go ahead and pay of Dec 30th and then also on Dec 31st so all payments are occurred this year and it's clean.

Of course this approach exposes me the homeowner as once the installer gets all my money I have no leverage (although the installer is large and reputable Slvn Solar).

Wondering if anyone knows and has any recommendations.

Additionally, I'll need to also back out the utility rebate (CSI) off the top although won't know that exact amount till later (but hopefully before 4/15).

Thanks!

This has already been discussed before on this thread. Bando is a CA CPA and what he said in the thread makes sense so I would follow his advice. The "in service" date would be the date when your system gets officially turned on by the utility company. It seems like the safest approach would be not to claim until the year when your system is "in service".

[PenguinSolar]

This has already been discussed before on this thread. Bando is a CA CPA and what he said in the thread makes sense so I would follow his advice. The "in service" date would be the date when your system gets officially turned on by the utility company. It seems like the safest approach would be not to claim until the year when your system is "in service".

Perfect! Exactly what I'm looking for thanks and happy holidays!

[silversaver]

I believe I understand. As a matter of fact, that logic was one of the first things I thought of when I reviewed the first proposal from that vendor that had their "reward bucks" as part of my HOA duties of reviewing/recommending solar jobs. Sort of a blinding flash of the obvious you might say.

At the time the thought occurred to me that the scheme could amount to something more than tax avoidance.

I didn't fall off a turnip truck last week and I try not to be a moral blue nose. I also like to be respectful in my opinions about others - in this case by starting out thinking most folks have a clue about their tax liabilities and responsibilities and would rather be honest about it, at least at the start. The logic I came up with, pretty much identical as presented above seems to infer people think and will behave otherwise given the chance. Maybe the vendor will send a 1099 and keep the customer off the horns of a moral and perhaps fiscal dilemma. If so, the delay of discount seems a bit silly as the tax liability will likely be similar as a first approximation - money falling over to the next tax year, etc. So, to what end ?

FWIW, I have had contact with my neighbors who have used that vendor as part of my HOA duties, but have not mentioned or discussed their taxes as that is absolutely none of anyone else's business.

Any IRS auditors out there ? NU ??

The vendor's incentive were offer to those who are out of CSI money, the incentive basically replace the CSI the customers missed. I have no idea if there a 1099 involved, why not pick up the phone and call them if you are interested. And please let us know.

[J.P.M.]

The vendor's incentive were offer to those who are out of CSI money, the incentive basically replace the CSI the customers missed. I have no idea if there a 1099 involved, why not pick up the phone and call them if you are interested. And please let us know.

My understanding is that a 30% tax credit applies to the balance of sale, i.e., after rebates or other price reductions, regardless of who provides them - the state, utility, vendor, whoever. Part of what I'm saying is that what you are describing and what I also thought of, as I'm sure most folks did also, sort of implies it may be smart and savvy to do something that may go beyond tax avoidance, and I'd rather not insult people by inferring they would entertain such an idea. Probably just my anachronistic old fart manners getting in the way of progress.

The last time I called this vendor was after they asked me to share some software I'd written. I suggested I'd entertain that idea after they gave me a written response to my formal request for proposal. They then told me that the best they could do was about $5.20 -$5.40/Watt for what I wanted. "Less would be a waste of our time." I took that as a decline of my RFP. I declined their request for my stuff. They suggest I not call them again. I have honored their last request. I expected more from a Gaelic outfit. (BTW: I got what I wanted as per my RFP for $4.50/Watt - 8 week startup after signing from another vendor).

Like you, I also have no idea if a 1099 is involved in their scheme. However, if I have a need to know about tax matters like that I'll call my accountant, not someone with skin in the game like the vendor.

[russ]

if I have a need to know about tax matters like that I'll call my accountant, not someone with skin in the game like the vendor.

A good and proper suggestion - anyone listening to a vendor only on this point is a fool and most likely will get the horn if audited. The IRS examiner will not be at all impressed by, "but the vendor told me".

[silversaver]

My understanding is that a 30% tax credit applies to the balance of sale, i.e., after rebates or other price reductions, regardless of who provides them - the state, utility, vendor, whoever. Part of what I'm saying is that what you are describing and what I also thought of, as I'm sure most folks did also, sort of implies it may be smart and savvy to do something that may go beyond tax avoidance, and I'd rather not insult people by inferring they would entertain such an idea. Probably just my anachronistic old fart manners getting in the way of progress.

The last time I called this vendor was after they asked me to share some software I'd written. I suggested I'd entertain that idea after they gave me a written response to my formal request for proposal. They then told me that the best they could do was about $5.20 -$5.40/Watt for what I wanted. "Less would be a waste of our time." I took that as a decline of my RFP. I declined their request for my stuff. They suggest I not call them again. I have honored their last request. I expected more from a Gaelic outfit. (BTW: I got what I wanted as per my RFP for $4.50/Watt - 8 week startup after signing from another vendor).

Like you, I also have no idea if a 1099 is involved in their scheme. However, if I have a need to know about tax matters like that I'll call my accountant, not someone with skin in the game like the vendor.

I didn't know you bad experience with them. I'm not extremely happy with them, but overall result were ok in my book. I had my solar system installed by them, so my comment were more of trustworthy. Any additional incentive is good on consumer side. customer might or might not get a 1099 depends on vendor. If they cut their own profit without 1099, even better. We are getting 1099 misc for CSI anyway. I don't know how they setup their incentive, but that's good to have. I don't might to get a 1099 if they will offering me an incentive. I met with 8 different solar companies but only signed with 1, that doesn't necessary mean the others were bad. I do felt some solar companies wasted my time, because I told them I'm not interest in leasing and they still trying to put me in a single pay lease.

They didn't waste my time, my cost were $2.84/Watt gross. The job had taken longer than I though, but finally done. Maybe I'm a little demanding just because I tips the installer $200 cash out front wishing a better work done but still have to do some cleaning job.

[J.P.M.]

I didn't know you bad experience with them. I'm not extremely happy with them, but overall result were ok in my book. I had my solar system installed by them, so my comment were more of trustworthy. Any additional incentive is good on consumer side. customer might or might not get a 1099 depends on vendor. If they cut their own profit without 1099, even better. We are getting 1099 misc for CSI anyway. I don't know how they setup their incentive, but that's good to have. I don't might to get a 1099 if they will offering me an incentive. I met with 8 different solar companies but only signed with 1, that doesn't necessary mean the others were bad. I do felt some solar companies wasted my time, because I told them I'm not interest in leasing and they still trying to put me in a single pay lease.

They didn't waste my time, my cost were $2.84/Watt gross. The job had taken longer than I though, but finally done. Maybe I'm a little demanding just because I tips the installer $200 cash out front wishing a better work done but still have to do some cleaning job.

Not a bad experience - its just business, at least with me. No rancor. No bad will. FWIW, that vendor's other jobs in my HOA seem to mostly have gone well as have most others done by established, professional outfits - my vendor included. From my dealings w/residents and watching their jobs as part of HOA duties, your vendor seems to run hot/cold when it comes to customer relations/interface. One of the things I learned way back when I was a salesperson was that no one ever won an argument with a customer. Not to put too fine a point on it, your vendor could have had some free, and IMO, useful tools, a job, and a bunch of very pregnant leads (as I tend to dance with who brung me) if they had handled me professionally and respectfully as I believe I treated them.

[russ]

I tips the installer $200 cash out front wishing a better work done but still have to do some cleaning job.

Not much of an installer to accept a bribe - you are not describing a tip when paid up front.

[silversaver]

Not much of an installer to accept a bribe - you are not describing a tip when paid up front.

Bribe? I guess you don't usually tip anyone and that is okay. Yes, it is their job to make sure they have done the proper work. I know there are few broken tiles on the roof before the installation, so I ask the installer to make sure he "check and fix" my roof at end of day so I don't need to "go" up there to inspect the job myself. They are the actual workers whos doing the installation. People work for living. I am not the type of person who check atfter everything and I don't have time for that. I don't think any incentive of that would consider a bribe.

[russ]

Definitions:
TIP -paid afterward for something well done
BRIBE - paid in advance in hope of gaining something extra

I have paid both

[silversaver]

Definitions:
TIP -paid afterward for something well done
BRIBE - paid in advance in hope of gaining something extra

I have paid both

I tip for something not well done too, don't know why but everyone is doing it

I pay/tip worker for extra job I ask them to do. I don't tangle with them or watching them through the installation. I have my own job to do. They only need to call me once completed. There's no need to bribe someone who gets pay to do the job. I don't hope to gain something extra, instead I demanding the job I request.

[SunEagle]

Definitions:
TIP -paid afterward for something well done
BRIBE - paid in advance in hope of gaining something extra

I have paid both

I agree with your definitions. I have also paid in advance to get a better table at a restaurant or to enter an establishment ahead of the line of people.

I am providing a monetary "reward" to get something better in exchange. This is not unusual and really not a bad thing unless the "bribe" is for something illegal.