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  • #31
    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
    Alright. The original 12 panels each are 235 watt , 33Vmp & ~7 amps. If you wire 4 in series then the voltage adds up to 132 volt but the amps stay at ~ 7. If you parallel 3 of these groups of 4 you will have a system that is at 132 volts and ~ 21 amps.

    If that is the case I do not know how you are getting the 40 to 45 amps that you mentioned in your first post. Something is incorrect with how the panels are wired.
    What you are missing is the CC is MPPT, and not PWM. Therefore Output Current = Panel Wattage / Battery Voltage.

    But if indeed his panels are 33 Vmp means the Voc is around 45 volts. With 4 in series Voc = 190 volts. The CC has a Voc limit of 150 volts. I would be surprised it worked at all.

    What is really going to piss Paul off is if he finds out he could have bought one Midnite Solar Classic 150 for half the price of two Outback FM60 and got the job done with one CC.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Sunking View Post
      What you are missing is the CC is MPPT, and not PWM. Therefore Output Current = Panel Wattage / Battery Voltage.

      But if indeed his panels are 33 Vmp means the Voc is around 45 volts. With 4 in series Voc = 190 volts. The CC has a Voc limit of 150 volts. I would be surprised it worked at all.

      What is really going to piss Paul off is if he finds out he could have bought one Midnite Solar Classic 150 for half the price of two Outback FM60 and got the job done with one CC.
      I understand. Thought he was talking about current values going into the CC not out. It would have been nice to get the panels specs in the beginning which would have reduced some of the confusion on how they were wired into the CC.

      I'm not familiar with the Midnite Solar 150 but I would presume it would handle each group of pv panels (12-235 & 8-250) as a separate inputs.

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      • #33
        Sorry guys, I was off the internet a bit so I didn't see the replys.

        Let me clear the things up first. the original panels is wired 4 panels in one series, the volt meter read 132 ~133 volts on hot sun. I don't see the voc or so on the panels, but the new ones seem come with some of those writings. It is raining now. I can't goto the roof to check it out.

        The 40 to 48 amps is the CC push to the inverter/battery rate at 50volt. it is half the incoming voltage and double the ampage. sorry I didn't get it more clear. it is about right on the original panel power. what is trouble me is the new 8 panels which suppose to rated higher than the original panel yet it give me less power. it should give me two third of the original panels but is only get less than half 17~19 amps to the battery compairing 40~48 amps from the original panels.

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        • #34
          It is raining now so the panels stop working, The controller with the original panels reported it collected 10.8kwh and the new controller collected 4.7kwh so far from this morning. so you can see it collected less than half the power than the original panels yet it has 2/3 amount panel with higher power rating.

          My system is connected to the grid with an automatic change over switch, the solar power is connected to the primary supply and the grid is connected to the secondary supply. when inverter turns on the switch connect it and supply the house and when the inverter turn off due to low battery cut off the grid coming to supply the house. that is why I ask in the other thread what is the right voltage for the rolls flooding batteries at 50% dod.

          Would it damage the batteries for the batteries staying at 50% dod at the nights?

          thank you.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
            Let me clear the things up first. the original panels is wired 4 panels in one series, the volt meter read 132 ~133 volts on hot sun.
            Paul that is more than likely Vmp. I hope that is Voc, but not likely since you mention hot sun which tends to tell me while the system is operating. The highest Vmp for your area is around 100 to 120 volts.

            That means you should not be using more than 3 panels in series. No problem for the group of 12, not so good for the group of 8 panels. However if the panels Vmp of the group of 8 are 35 to 36 or more, 2 in series will work which means 4 x 2 arrangement.

            I am confident as of now 4 in series is causing you issues. I do not think it will solve all your problems, but at least get more predictable results.

            Also note you are in a HOT CLIMATE where ambient temps are 30+ this time of year. That means Panel temps are up to 50+ which will decrease power output significantly as the Vmp drops as temps rise. A typical Temp Coefficient is .4%/C. So that means a panel rated for say 250 watts @ 25 operation at 50 C is 25 x .4% = 10% power loss. Jamaica is also very humid which will easily knock irradiance down another 10% or more for a total 20% loss of nameplate power. That turns a 250 watt panel into 200 watts easily. Or your 2000 watt array down to 1600 watts or less.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #36
              Hailstones drop from the sky little while ago. what is happening?. ice drop from the sky in Jamaica? the tempeture was about 95f before it raining.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
                Hailstones drop from the sky little while ago. what is happening?. ice drop from the sky in Jamaica? the tempeture was about 95f before it raining.
                It is called up lift. Get it all the time in TX when it is 100+. We also get a little wind time from time called a Twister.
                MSEE, PE

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                • #38
                  The 8 panels have stickers from Sunelec.com when I receive them. I went to their website. the only one that match the 250 watts is the sonali ss-250 which has the voc 37.20 so 4 of them would be 148.80. would that be ok then?

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
                    The 8 panels have stickers from Sunelec.com when I receive them. I went to their website. the only one that match the 250 watts is the sonali ss-250 which has the voc 37.20 so 4 of them would be 148.80. would that be ok then?
                    Way to close for comfort. Typically if you have a Voc input limit of 150 volts, you want name plate to total to be no higher than 120 Voc. In Jamaica you could push that up to 130. Cool mornings and you are above the limit until the sun heats things up.
                    MSEE, PE

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                    • #40
                      Do you have these 2 CCers setup as a master and a slave? If so, I would assume the master is your original on the original array and your new is the slave on the new array. Won't the slave only input to the batteries what the master can't supply to keep them charged?
                      1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

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                      • #41
                        Actually the new panels are sun-nd250 which have the voc of 38.30 each. so it is over the limit. that is why when it mesures 133 volts for the 4 panels and drop to 90iesh when load take it. so one panel trip out ?

                        Is it ok while the original panels stay as is 4 in a series 3 set in parallels to one controller, and the new panels use 3x3 if I get one more panels with the other controller?. does the controller output adjust it self to the battery voltage?

                        thank you

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                        • #42
                          You have still not said what your battery bank Ah rating is, it is possible you have too many panels for your battery bank and the other CC is only inputting what the bank needs (less than you expect) but you drain it down to 0 each day.
                          1150W, Midnite Classic 200, Cotek PSW, 8 T-605s

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                          • #43
                            Paul you need to do things, otherwise I cannot help you much anymore.

                            • Limit panels to 3 in series.
                            • Install communication cable between the two Outback FM60 controllers.


                            After you get the panels reconfigured it will not solve all your issues. But might discover some in the process. For one I would be interested in what size wire you have installed between the combiner and charge controller and how long it is.

                            What I really suspect is your whole system is just not matched up to do what you want, and you have already done damage to your batteries by excessive discharging and not ever getting them fully recharged. I do not even understand what you are trying to do. You say you have commercial power, but insist on running your system to the ground. I know electric rates are expensive on the island, but not near as expensive as solar battery. I thought at one time you said you had Rolls battery which are great batteries. But treating them the way you describe, they will be boat anchors for fisherman in less than a year. I also seem to recall they are way undersized. Hoiw expensive will it be to replace them and more of them.

                            Honestly you really need to stop and think about what you are doing. Been to Jamaica many times. Thus I know you must be a man of stature in your country because 95% of the residents could not even afford a solar panel or even dream about what you are trying to do. Now if you want to make a system to carry you through frequent power outages, that can be done and not waste so much of your hard earned money. You already have what you need except maybe batteries and some rewiring.

                            Choice is yours.

                            Good Luck.
                            MSEE, PE

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                            • #44
                              Thanks for your time.

                              Here is my goal. I try to use as much solar power as possible to reduce the electricity bill. I use about 900 to 1100 kwh a month consistancely. Because there are some water pumps that run 24/7 for the fish ponds. I try to get twice as much solar power to my load so I can use the solar power in the morning to about 4pm. during that time I hope to charge the batteries and then discharge them after the sun start to fade.

                              I know the batteries is very expensive that is way I only try to do 10 to 12 hours from the solar system. the grid is tie to the system via an automatic switch. when the batteries discharged to 50% then the inverter turn off then it goes to the grid automatically. so I won't have and disruption on the power supply.

                              would the batteries be ok if it get charge to 80% ~ 95% or so during the day and discharge to 50% at the evening and remain 50% charge at the night till the morning then start all over again?

                              The batteries are rolls s460. 6volts 8 of them make it to 48 volts. I think it rate 375amph to 460 amph depend on how I use it. so I should get about 175amph between charges to 50%. at 40amps inverting I shoulod get about 4 hours from full chagre to 50%. that is why I need to get as much solar power as possible. when the Charge controller say floating charge. does it mean the batteries near full charged?

                              How do I install communication cable for the two outback? do the controller have a port for that?

                              Due to the amount of the wires I have installed in the conduct I am not sure it be possible to install all panels in 3 panels per series. Can I leave the original panels with 4 in a series and get one more new panel and wire the 9 new panel in 3 per series? Can that work with the two outback controller? right now the original cc have incoming volt of 102~120 UNDER load and the new cc have 76~96 volts incoming under load. how do the cc controls the charge? by the voltage of the batteries?

                              Thank you.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                You could reduce the power bill even more and far more cheaply by using grid tie - that way would be far greener as well.

                                Using the grid for your battery is the smartest thing.
                                [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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