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  • #16
    Originally posted by BrandonWWS View Post
    We install, near Austin a 6kw, 30 panel hybrid Outback system with battery bank for 25-30k depending on options like bank size and fixed rack or tracking system.. Seems like 25-30 is kind of high for a simple grid-tie..? I would think it could be done with the recent lower prices on the gear for 20 on the cheap or craigslist contracting or by sourcing the parts out yourself for the installer to throw up.. There are guys out here in TX installing grid-tie for $3.50 per watt before rebates right now.. Panels battery banks and inverters are under a dollar each per watt right now. We are out of Wimberley, between Austin and San Antonio, providing custom wind and solar solutions to the Hill Country.

    Why don't you lower your usage by 10-20% instead of spending all this money you do not have right now on solar? LED lights, an energy management devices and smart policy would be much cheaper to implement and would cut bills down WAY more than the $18 savings per month that the lease you like is claiming.. By this time next year, solar will be probably 20% less to install than is now... Plus now, your usage is going to be 10-20% lower for the year hence now in this paradigm, next years system might only need to be a 5 or 6kw vs the 8kw needed most likely to run 100% of your current loads.

    Battery backup and sun tracking can be afforded with this suggestion next year for the same costs as the plain grid-tie system with no off-grid and no dressing that you are looking for right this moment..

    BreeZee

    Hey Brandon / BreeZee, you're predicting 20% lower costs next year, but a lot of other people here are saying (a) incentives are quickly disappearing and (b) companies are quickly going bankrupt. Whom am I to believe?

    I note the NY incentives (while quite generous) have already been ratcheted down a bit.

    Comment


    • #17
      Methinks the lower costs next year are a pipe dream. I spoke with several distributors today that told me the manufacturers are increasing prices in the near future and expect between a 3 and 5 cent a watt increase at least for Mono's.
      And what is up with getting black frame American made panels these days. Seems no one has anything. everything coming off the lines seems to be a silver frame.
      NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

      [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

      [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

      [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Noob View Post
        Hey Brandon / BreeZee, you're predicting 20% lower costs next year, but a lot of other people here are saying (a) incentives are quickly disappearing and (b) companies are quickly going bankrupt. Whom am I to believe?

        I note the NY incentives (while quite generous) have already been ratcheted down a bit.
        The rebates in Austin (probably as hansom as NY rebates) with AE have dropped out a little bit also but I do not like to factor them into the equation. The fed rebate is good still for a couple of years, there can only be additional rebate and incentives from here, be they higher pay outs for net metered energy put back to the grid as inflation continues or the many utility co's that still offer nothing starting to offer more robust programs..

        We are hoping that PEC surrounding Austin will have something soon.. Incentives are still around, check out dsireusa.org for a state by state list of active green rebates.

        Installed systems cost us about 1.50 less to install today from 14 months ago for the same parts.. For instance, a 250 watt panel might have cost 1.50 per watt January of 12, by the end of last year a 250 watt made here panel was like a dollar for us, now they are .65 cents per watt and down from 1.50 last year.

        Companies go under in any industry. Especially the ones that lease, loan, beg and borrow in getting going. Installers to manufactures. I wonder who is going under that has boot strapped their outfit vs. borrowed to grow? How many restaurants went under last year? How about gas stations??

        We do not pursue heavily in marketing the rebates, we fulfill them and make them as large as possible but a rebate to one of our client another perk rather than essential for making the purchase decision for going off the grid... The rebate always helps and would totally help a small earner such as myself in going green and I do not foresee them going anywhere, at least not while the economy is in free fall as is right now..

        I will be happy for the day when I do not have to even think about rebates and deductions to install energy! It will streamline things. They are cool for now though until parts prices and labor times drop some more.


        Bankrupt companies means cheap inventory and manufacturing equipment for us scavengers out here.. 3 sprout up when one dies kind of thing imo. Nothing to be afraid of. Where else are we going to get power from any how? It is not like we can build a coal plant in this country any more with Agenda 21 and the likes taking full effect.

        B

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by BrandonWWS View Post
          The rebates in Austin (probably as hansom as NY rebates) with AE have dropped out a little bit also but I do not like to factor them into the equation. The fed rebate is good still for a couple of years, there can only be additional rebate and incentives from here, be they higher pay outs for net metered energy put back to the grid as inflation continues or the many utility co's that still offer nothing starting to offer more robust programs..

          We are hoping that PEC surrounding Austin will have something soon.. Incentives are still around, check out dsireusa.org for a state by state list of active green rebates.

          Installed systems cost us about 1.50 less to install today from 14 months ago for the same parts.. For instance, a 250 watt panel might have cost 1.50 per watt January of 12, by the end of last year a 250 watt made here panel was like a dollar for us, now they are .65 cents per watt and down from 1.50 last year.

          Companies go under in any industry. Especially the ones that lease, loan, beg and borrow in getting going. Installers to manufactures. I wonder who is going under that has boot strapped their outfit vs. borrowed to grow? How many restaurants went under last year? How about gas stations??

          We do not pursue heavily in marketing the rebates, we fulfill them and make them as large as possible but a rebate to one of our client another perk rather than essential for making the purchase decision for going off the grid... The rebate always helps and would totally help a small earner such as myself in going green and I do not foresee them going anywhere, at least not while the economy is in free fall as is right now..

          I will be happy for the day when I do not have to even think about rebates and deductions to install energy! It will streamline things. They are cool for now though until parts prices and labor times drop some more.


          Bankrupt companies means cheap inventory and manufacturing equipment for us scavengers out here.. 3 sprout up when one dies kind of thing imo. Nothing to be afraid of. Where else are we going to get power from any how? It is not like we can build a coal plant in this country any more with Agenda 21 and the likes taking full effect.

          B

          Thanks for the detail. Personally I have no idea; my handle's no exaggeration. But to hear "industry" people on this forum talk, the situation is getting dire, and apparently represents a change from years past... I guess it's like anything else, you buy what you want that makes sense to you at the time. I too would love the pricing to net out the same without the incentive programs (I hate rebates in general), but that seems MANY years off, no?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Naptown View Post
            Methinks the lower costs next year are a pipe dream. I spoke with several distributors today that told me the manufacturers are increasing prices in the near future and expect between a 3 and 5 cent a watt increase at least for Mono's.
            And what is up with getting black frame American made panels these days. Seems no one has anything. everything coming off the lines seems to be a silver frame.
            Suniva makes a black frame 250 mono... Picked up a batch of them for an Install a few months back.. Threw 18 of them on 2 custom fabbed XY array's painted to match, the setup looks real clean tracking all day.. Gexpro had them for less than 1$ per watt @ 250.. 600vdc

            Dust frame would be cool looking too imo.. I think prices will stay low. But who knows?!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by BrandonWWS View Post
              Suniva makes a black frame 250 mono... Picked up a batch of them for an Install a few months back.. Threw 18 of them on 2 custom fabbed XY array's painted to match, the setup looks real clean tracking all day.. Gexpro had them for less than 1$ per watt @ 250.. 600vdc

              Dust frame would be cool looking too imo.. I think prices will stay low. But who knows?!
              Those are what I have been using of late. Nice module but can't find enough to even fulfill what I sold. Only thing available is a silver frame.
              NABCEP certified Technical Sales Professional

              [URL="http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?5334-Solar-Off-Grid-Battery-Design"]http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showth...Battery-Design[/URL]

              [URL]http://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html[/URL] (Voltage drop Calculator among others)

              [URL="http://www.gaisma.com"]www.gaisma.com[/URL]

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Noob View Post
                Thanks for the detail. Personally I have no idea; my handle's no exaggeration. But to hear "industry" people on this forum talk, the situation is getting dire, and apparently represents a change from years past... I guess it's like anything else, you buy what you want that makes sense to you at the time. I too would love the pricing to net out the same without the incentive programs (I hate rebates in general), but that seems MANY years off, no?
                I think the rebates will leave when worldwide socialism/crony capitalism leaves...... Things are dire to certain people everywhere Noob. Poor people have it dire so why would certain industry insiders be any different? Not saying I have much, being an installer of off-grid systems, I cannot yet afford to be off grid yet myself..

                The libertarian inside of me says pull the plug on rebates too then the capitalist says ride the wave until it cannot be rode no more!

                Take care

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Naptown View Post
                  Those are what I have been using of late. Nice module but can't find enough to even fulfill what I sold. Only thing available is a silver frame.
                  PM'd you contact info for our source on the black framed 250's Rich.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by paladisiac View Post
                    Hi all,

                    I've read a number of threads on this site along with many solar panel system websites to determine if investing in a solar panel system for our home is a good idea and if we can afford buying and paying for installing a system.

                    First, about me:

                    * I live in Denver, CO which sees a massive amount of sunlight each year.
                    * My house roof is south facing seeing daylight almost the entire day.
                    * I'm looking to ditch our energy provider (xcel) as much as possible to be more environmentally-friendly.
                    * Ideas regarding "your money would work better as an investment in ..." aren't as important to me as I see brought up here.
                    * I've run through our bills for the last 2 years. Our last XCEL summer bill charged $0.124 per kwh and $0.1088 per kwh in the non-summer.

                    I've scoured many threads here on these forums and couldn't find answers to my questions, specifically Colorado-based examples -- i apologize if i'm asking something that could be found in another thread. If i can provide any more information to help you help me, then let me know.. Thank you for your help.
                    Hey Paladasiac,

                    You can read about some of the specific Colorado solar incentives (and ones for Denver) at www.colorado-solar.org. This page in particular should be helpful. Specifically, Denver looks like they waive all fees associated with solar permitting, which can add up to a pretty significant cost by the end of the process. They have a cost estimator which might be helpful too.

                    edit: They also look like they have listings of installers in Denver, which might be able to help you sort through your options.

                    Comment

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