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Restrictions by Electirc Companies for BYO Panels

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  • Restrictions by Electirc Companies for BYO Panels

    What are the restrictions to using your own byo solar panels if you want to hook them up in an on-grid system and can we sell the excess electric back that is not used?

  • #2
    Real simple, you cannot use them is the only restriction.
    MSEE, PE

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    • #3
      Well I will be using them with or without their permission. It is my house. They are not the authority of what I can do to my house. There are a ton of people that do use them this way ie to supplement their electric. Are you sure you understood my question?

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      • #4
        Your question is well understood. Your house or not, the electric grid isn't yours - you are connecting into the property of others. Go totally off grid if you wish to do as you please - still an insurance problem though and in many places there are building code restrictions.

        Unless an item is UL approved (or by an equivalent group) it is not legal to plug in to the grid.

        Doing so makes it entirely possible for you to be disconnected from the grid as a penalty and in the event of a firs your homeowners insurance is most likely void.

        This is to protect people from DIY items and shoddy items than are often totally unsafe.

        If people are dumping power back into the grid and a lineman is shocked when thinking the system is dead he ain't gonna be happy.
        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by russ View Post
          Your question is well understood. Your house or not, the electric grid isn't yours - you are connecting into the property of others. Go totally off grid if you wish to do as you please - still an insurance problem though and in many places there are building code restrictions.

          Unless an item is UL approved (or by an equivalent group) it is not legal to plug in to the grid.

          Doing so makes it entirely possible for you to be disconnected from the grid as a penalty and in the event of a firs your homeowners insurance is most likely void.

          This is to protect people from DIY items and shoddy items than are often totally unsafe.

          If people are dumping power back into the grid and a lineman is shocked when thinking the system is dead he ain't gonna be happy.
          I'm not stupid that's why I'm asking so I can do it properly. I feel the answer was very poorly addressed and I will go to another forum as this one seems too commercial. It's obvious that there is a safe way to do this without having to pay a high cost for a commercial system. If this was a true diy self forum there would be support to diy. Anyway good job promoting "safe" commercial electricity for your contractors union. If the meter doesn't turn backwards it shouldn't go back to the grid. I'm sure there is a way around this. Anyway thanks for the "conversation" or should I say talking down to. /no longer a member of this group!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by traderneal View Post
            I'm not stupid that's why I'm asking so I can do it properly. I feel the answer was very poorly addressed and I will go to another forum as this one seems too commercial. It's obvious that there is a safe way to do this without having to pay a high cost for a commercial system. If this was a true diy self forum there would be support to diy. Anyway good job promoting "safe" commercial electricity for your contractors union. If the meter doesn't turn backwards it shouldn't go back to the grid. I'm sure there is a way around this. Anyway thanks for the "conversation" or should I say talking down to. /no longer a member of this group!
            Please go - no problem. No one here is going to recommend taking illegal actions.

            Quote, 'If the meter doesn't turn backwards it shouldn't go back to the grid' That makes no sense whatsoever.

            I would recommend some green/survivalist site where loony is the norm and safety, building codes etc are of no interest.

            Everyone is a part of society whether they or society likes it or not. Rules, codes etc are there for a reason and not to be picked and chosen at one's convenience when one does not even understand them.
            [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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            • #7
              You are going to get the same answer where ever you go if they are honest and knowledgeable. I am an electrical engineer and do not represent any union, manufacture, company, or product line. You are already aware there might be a problem with DIY panels or else you would not have asked in the first place. So now you want to shoot the messenger for being honest and telling you the truthful facts.

              To connect to the grid you first have to pull a construction permit from your local building code enforcement agency. In the application you have to list your materials. They will not issue a permit with DIY panels.

              During construction you will have at least two inspections. IS non approved materials are seen they will stop the work and red flag the project, and you will not be given a Certificate of Occupancy.

              When it is time for the electric company to connect you they are going to look for the Inspectors Green Approved tag and check your paper work to make sure you comply with local building codes and pass their inspections.

              Lastly will be when you inform your insurance carrier, they are going to make sure you followed all the rules and pass their inspections.

              There is a gauntlet of inspections you have to go through, and if you do not play by the rules, you will not be connected. If you bypass the rules, when the electric company spots your system, and they will see it, they will disconnect your service and will not reconnect you until you comply and pay reconnect fees and service charges.

              Just because it is your home, does not give you the right to put other peoples lives and property at risk. A solar system puts other people property and lives at risk whether you realize it or not. Each and every code rule was made because property was destroyed and people died.
              MSEE, PE

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              • #8
                watch youtube for UL approved method

                they are right.

                but if you smarten up and buy a factory made panel and want to install it yourself.
                go to youtube and search for
                enphase microinverter grid tie assembly

                the guys video shows you how to hook everything up, you still need to pull a permit, but in some states like North Dakota the home owner can do the work, other places a contractor needs to.

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                • #9
                  On a side note.
                  Do the same UL restrictions apply to grid tie wind turbines?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NeilTheCop View Post
                    On a side note.
                    Do the same UL restrictions apply to grid tie wind turbines?
                    Yes of course they do. wind turbines are far more dangerous than solar panels. They can fly apart and tower structures fall.
                    MSEE, PE

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                    • #11
                      "The Man" is working with the insurance companies and city emergency services, to come up with these regulations, so "they" (insurance co) don't have excess claims, and extra runs to pull linemen off live wires, and drag people out from under failed windmill towers. There are bunches of videos on Utube, of several windmills coming apart , and somebody figured out a long time ago, that homebrew generators could backfeed the grid, so the regulations were put into place. ( but personally, I want to see the homeowner genset try to power an entire neighborhood where there is an outage, I'd think 20 fridges and a boatload of lights would overload the rig, and shut it off in a few seconds ).

                      But these are the rules, and with good reasons, because of historical precedence. Back in the 1800's a farmer would just use a stick of TNT to get rid of that troublesome stump or rock in the field, now you can't even buy it.
                      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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                      • #12
                        Even the cheapest grid tie inverters have island protection. i do not know of a single one that can backfeed the grid and shock a worker. I'm all for educating people, but false info helps no one.

                        It's cheaper to buy them premade anyways, prices have already decreased 10% per watt this year a lone and predictions suggest they will fall another 10 to 20% by years end.

                        With that kind of depreciation you might as well wait until they cost nothing LOL.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                          Back in the 1800's a farmer would just use a stick of TNT to get rid of that troublesome stump or rock in the field, now you can't even buy it.
                          Mike it was not that far back. When I was a kid growing up in the 60's, that is exactly what we did. Bought everything at the hardware store. I still have USAG Department pamphlets with detailed instructions of to remove tree stumps right down to taking fertilizer mixing it with diesel fuel, using telephone wire to wire up to the tractor battery and how to rig the blasting cap all available at hardware stores. They even went as far as to tell you how to dispose of any unused Amfo left over by burning it.
                          MSEE, PE

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                          • #14
                            just a side note

                            before you purchase any solar equipment check with your local permitting office ,as i found out in the great state of Florida i can't use diy panels for anything can't mount them at all roof or ground also Florida has the the "Florida Solar Energy Center" FSEC for short and they are the ones who say what solar equipment can be used in Florida ,if it's not on the site you can't use it in Florida

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                            • #15
                              fsec can't restrict what you install in FL, who told you that?

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