Remote Telecom/Surveillance Solar Setup - Feedback?

**SunEagle** · 11-16-2015, 10:57 AM

I see a couple of issues with your solar/battery equipment.

If you have calculated a minimum of 504 watt hours to a max of 655 watt hours a day but your panels might only generate 600 watt hours so you are right on the line of too little panel wattage.

Your 105Ah 12v battery also can only safely deliver about 315 watt hours a day (using 25% of the battery capacity) so you can easily drain that battery much more each day and greatly shorten it's life.

You might want to look at a battery system that can provide 5 times that 504 watt hours a day (12volt 210Ah) and a panel wattage that can put back 21 amps of charging which would require you to go with a larger MPPT CC and at least 300 watts of panels. Although depending on where you live and how much sun insolation you get in the Winter you might need more panel wattage and battery Ah.

Oh and welcome to Solar Panel Talk

**Mike90250** · 11-16-2015, 11:03 AM

How does the system shut down if you have several cloudy days ? Does that charge controller have a LOAD connector that is rated for your total device load? I think you are under paneled, since the typo in your post has listed 00w panels

My concern is in extended clouds (happens everywhere at least a couple times a year) the DC converters will keep bleeding the battery down to a damaging point, the controller may even shut down if the voltage goes low enough. One deep discharge to -110% will reverse charge a cell in the battery and destroy it.

**Sunking** · 11-16-2015, 12:13 PM

First no one needs to know or care what equipment the battery is powering. Makes no difference if it s a resistor making heat or a gadget. They all use power. All we want to know is how many watts for how many hours in a day. In other words Watt Hours. Watt Hours = Watts x Hours

Second we could care less about the amperage as it is not needed for the design. Amps is just t Just an end result at the end of the design like how many watys of solar power are needed and what size controller. All we want is Watt Hours used in a day. The rest is meaningless details we could care less about. .

OK we need to know Watt Hours. Not sure if you gave us that or not. I suspect you might of, but if you did, your terminology is wrong. So where is it? Is the 504 watts number you gave? Watts is the rate at which power is used or burned off. We want to know the energy or watt hours consumed in a 24 hour period.

If 500 wh is correct means you need a battery with a minimum 2500 watt hours capacity. But that only gives you 3 days of real antonomy before needing to shut down and wait for 3 full sunny days to recharge before you can power back up. Otherwise you need a generator. For your application I would suggest 10 day reserve capacity or a 5 Kwh battery. Take your pick minimum 5 day reserve or 10 day reserve. if 5 day reserve the 12 volt battery size is 2500 wh / 12 volts = 208 AH or 200 AH rounded down. 10 day battery 400 AH. I have no idea how you came up with 100 AH battery, nor do I care. All you need to know is it is the wrong answer and why which I already answered.

As for panel Wattagge no one can answer. You have not specified minimum Sun Hours in the area of operation. YOU MUST HAVE full obstructive view of the full Horizon to east, south, and west for the formula to work. First decision is to make is PWM or MPPT charge controller. If you choose a cheap PWM will be the most expensive option. If choosing PWM multiply your daily Watt Hours by 2. So 500 Wh x 2 = 1000 wh. If using MPPT controller multiply by 1.5 so 500 wh x 1.5 = 750 wh.

Now all you need is Sun Hours WTF is it? When you find out to find panel wattage is Watts = Watt Hours / Sun Hours. Example using a MPPT controller with 3 Sun Hours is 750 wh / 3 hours = 250 watts.

As for charge controller is the last step as you need to know minimum amperage. Amps = Panel Wattage / Battery Voltage. example 250 watts / 12 volts = 20.8 amps so a 20 amp controller would work.

Note if you cannot get to the site with a generator after two cloudy days, you will need a 10 day battery reserve capacity which in practice only give you 6 days of usable power. When you go over 5 day capacity everything changes. FLA batteries need a minimum charge rate of C/12 to C/10. in the above example a 250 watt panel will generate 20 amps of charge current which is enough to charge the 200 AH battery as that is C/10 charge rate. Bu tnot near enough to charge a 400 AH battery as that requires a minimum 40 amps. To geet 40 amps requires a 500 watt panel and 40 amp charge controller.

Now time for you to answer questions.

How many Watt Hours?
How many Sun Hours?
How many days of reserve? (5 is the minimum answer so it is 5 or more days.)

Answer those 3 questions and you can design a system. If you have not figured it out yet or not you screwed up big time. You already bought equipment without planning. Not likely you can use any of it.

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 01:06 PM

Well I definitely appreciate all of your feedback! Sorry for any confusion for my system setup as I am new to the game. I apologize for the typo in my panel wattage, they are 100 watt panels.

The max wattage for all of my devices combined is 21 watts = 504 watt hours. I included the 10%, 20%, 30% increases into the post just as I was thinking out loud.

This system will be in Southwest Texas so during the winter the average sun hours is 4.5 hours.

To summarize all of your feedback it seems like I would need three things:

1. A larger charge controller that can handle closer to 30 amps.
2. Another 50 watts added to my array.
3. More AMP Hours added into my battery bank.

I can definitely make that happen but I would appreciate more feedback.

Questions:

1. Would running the panels in parallel at 24v provide more charging power and remove the need to add more solar?
2. Would adding a wind turbine alleviate the need for more solar? If so, can I add a turbine with an integrated controller directly into the battery bank or what would be the best practice for that?
3. Are there any products out there that would provide battery disconnect if their charge is too low? Does my charge controller not provide this already?

Thanks again! All of you have been very helpful!

**SunEagle** · 11-16-2015, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by kb1003

Well I definitely appreciate all of your feedback! Sorry for any confusion for my system setup as I am new to the game. I apologize for the typo in my panel wattage, they are 100 watt panels.

The max wattage for all of my devices combined is 21 watts = 504 watt hours. I included the 10%, 20%, 30% increases into the post just as I was thinking out loud.

This system will be in Southwest Texas so during the winter the average sun hours is 4.5 hours.

To summarize all of your feedback it seems like I would need three things:

1. A larger charge controller that can handle closer to 30 amps.
2. Another 50 watts added to my array.
3. More AMP Hours added into my battery bank.

I can definitely make that happen but I would appreciate more feedback.

Questions:

1. Would running the panels in parallel at 24v provide more charging power and remove the need to add more solar?
2. Would adding a wind turbine alleviate the need for more solar? If so, can I add a turbine with an integrated controller directly into the battery bank or what would be the best practice for that?
3. Are there any products out there that would provide battery disconnect if their charge is too low? Does my charge controller not provide this already?

Thanks again! All of you have been very helpful!

For some reason I saw your reference to the 2 Renology 00W panels and took that to mean they were 100 watt panels. So adding just another 50 watts may not be enough.

To answer your questions;
1. If you have a true MPPT charge controller you should take advantage to series wire your panels to it. Wiring them in parallel will not necessarily increase your charging power.
2. Unless you have a constant 20mph wind and a place that you can put up a tall 60 pole with 200 feet of clearance around it, those wind turbines will not provide anywhere close to their nameplate wattage and are just about a waste of your money.
3. To be able to use the charge controller to disconnect the load due to low battery voltage, will require a quality CC that has a high amp rated Load output. Most charge controllers can only handle a relatively small load like a light connected to the "load" terminals. The problem with a low battery voltage cut out is that most are set below a safe voltage (~12.2v) which ends up draining and destroying your battery.

A couple of bits of info that you haven't provided is; How remote will this site be and how critical does it need to work 24/7

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 01:50 PM

OK so no turbine.

The system will be on private land with accessibility. I'm building out 5 of these.

I'm researching more panels and it looks like I can bump up to a 265 watt panel (Kyocera KU265-6MCA 265 Watt Multicrystal Solar Panel) for the same price as the two 100 watt panels. My charge controller is only rated at 260 watts input at 12v. This means I will need to bump up my charge controller as well. I am looking at the (Tracer-3215RN 30A 12V 24V).

Do you think that is necessary? Many people run their controllers at or barely higher than what they are rated for.

The system will be powering at a minimum the PTZ camera and the wireless bridge 24x7. I can always drop the wireless router out of the equation but I would rather not.

This system will be used to monitor a ranch for livestock and trespassers so 24x7 is pretty much a must.

Thanks for the reply. Please let me know what you think.

**SunEagle** · 11-16-2015, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by kb1003

OK so no turbine.

The system will be on private land with accessibility. I'm building out 5 of these.

I'm researching more panels and it looks like I can bump up to a 265 watt panel (Kyocera KU265-6MCA 265 Watt Multicrystal Solar Panel) for the same price as the two 100 watt panels. My charge controller is only rated at 260 watts input at 12v. This means I will need to bump up my charge controller as well. I am looking at the (Tracer-3215RN 30A 12V 24V).

Do you think that is necessary? Many people run their controllers at or barely higher than what they are rated for.

The system will be powering at a minimum the PTZ camera and the wireless bridge 24x7. I can always drop the wireless router out of the equation but I would rather not.

This system will be used to monitor a ranch for livestock and trespassers so 24x7 is pretty much a must.

Thanks for the reply. Please let me know what you think.

I do not have first hand experience with that Tracer 2210RN cc but it all comes down to how much charging it does and what your battery system needs. A 210Ah system needs between 18 and 26 amps of charging so while 20 amps may work, if you need more you will be limited with that 20amp CC.

I brought up the question about where these units will be going because no automation is fool proof and when you add uncertainty of the weather a solar / battery system will need some type of baby sitting and maintenance.

That usually means is it protected from damage or theft from the local wild life or the 2 legged kind? If your system stops working how long would it be before someone checked on it and if the length of that time is critical to the mission?

Unfortunately a solar / battery power generator is not a plug in and forget type of system. I may be over cautious but I do not want you to be over confidant that once a system is set up it will work 24/7 all year long.

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 02:50 PM

Roger that. I can understand those concerns. Fortunately, each solar station will be located at feed stations that are regularly traveled to. There are also high fences around the area where all of these stations will be located.

I will pull the trigger on the better charge controller.

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 02:51 PM

I really wish I could set this up to be monitored over a TCP/IP network. By chance does anyone know of such a device that can monitor a solar system over a network?

**Sunking** · 11-16-2015, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by kb1003

The max wattage for all of my devices combined is 21 watts = 504 watt hours. I included the 10%, 20%, 30% increases into the post just as I was thinking out loud.

This system will be in Southwest Texas so during the winter the average sun hours is 4.5 hours.

OK that is all that is all we need to know.

Since you are using a MPPT controller and I assume it is a real MPPT controller you add 50% to your daily power. Panel Wattage required is:

[Daily Watt Hours x 1.5] / Sun Hours.
[500 x 1.5] / 4.5 = 167 watts.

So you are OK having 200 watts of panels. Next time use a single 200 watt GT panel. It would have saved you roughly 50% in coins. Battery panels are expensive. Additionally now you need twice the hardware for 2 panels vs just a single panel. The savings would have paid for a good Charge Controller, vs the cheap one you bought already

Your 105 AH battery is not going to work period. Get rid of it and buy you 2 Trojan T-105's batteries. They are 6 volt 225 AH batteries. But that in practice only gives you three days of autonomy. So if you run into a period of 3 days of clouds or more and you have to shut down and wait for 3 sunny days to recharge before you can power up again. That is why off-grid systems need generators. Only work around is double both battery capacity (to 10 days or 400 AH) and panel wattage (400 watts with a 40 amp controller) .

As for the CC, never owned the model you have and would never use it as IO have heard nothing good about them. With 200 watts of panels operating at 12 volt battery requires a minimum 20 amp MPPT controller. Note a 20 amp MPPT controller can input 400 watts at 24 volt battery.

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 03:24 PM

Thanks for the input.

I am buying supplies off of Amazon so my controller selection was limited. According to the reviews they seem like decent controllers. I do already have the 100 watt panels on order but they have not shipped yet so I can still cancel the order and go with a bigger 200 watt panel. I am really concerned with having enough wattage now.

Should I just order another 50 watt panel or the new 200 watt panel and keep my current controller? Or order another 100 watt panel and a new controller for 300 watts and 30 amp?

They make a 150 watt panel and I can just keep my current order and combine the 150 watt and 100 watt for 250 watts of power.

**SunEagle** · 11-16-2015, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by kb1003

Thanks for the input.

I am buying supplies off of Amazon so my controller selection was limited. According to the reviews they seem like decent controllers. I do already have the 100 watt panels on order but they have not shipped yet so I can still cancel the order and go with a bigger 200 watt panel. I am really concerned with having enough wattage now.

Should I just order another 50 watt panel or the new 200 watt panel and keep my current controller? Or order another 100 watt panel and a new controller for 300 watts and 30 amp?

They make a 150 watt panel and I can just keep my current order and combine the 150 watt and 100 watt for 250 watts of power.

You really shouldn't combine different wattage solar panels in the same system unless their specs are very close (<5%) to one another. Either go with one large 200 watt panel or 2 x 100 watt panels but never a 100w and 150 watt.

**kb1003** · 11-16-2015, 04:06 PM

OK since I already have the 100 watt panels on order. I'm thinking about ordering 1 more 100 watt panel, mount them separately and run them in a series for 300 watts of power. That would put 3 panels on a vertical pole mount.

I will also upgrade my controller.

Thoughts?

**SunEagle** · 11-16-2015, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by kb1003

OK since I already have the 100 watt panels on order. I'm thinking about ordering 1 more 100 watt panel, mount them separately and run them in a series for 300 watts of power. That would put 3 panels on a vertical pole mount.

I will also upgrade my controller.

Thoughts?

Just make sure the controller's Max DC voltage input (from the panels) is compatible with 3 x the Voc rating on those 100 watt panels.

Remote Telecom/Surveillance Solar Setup - Feedback?

Remote Telecom/Surveillance Solar Setup - Feedback?

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