Utility Co. called me, I'm not using enough power?

**Sunking** · 11-10-2015, 05:41 PM

They are not in biz to loose money. In your contract somewhere you signed and agreed to the terms. So if you are not keeping up your end of the Contract agreement, yes they can boot you off. Just like paying rent or car payments, fail to pay rent or make payments, you are in default, and out you go. That is what you agreed to.

**emartin00** · 11-10-2015, 05:56 PM

Buy an EV or PHEV and use some of that excess to drive for free!
You could also try to negotiate that they can just zero out your bill every 12 months instead of keep accruing credits. They probably won't go for that, but worth a shot?

**Ben25** · 11-10-2015, 06:42 PM

Just put in an electric baseboard heater. That should use it up pretty quickly. Even a space heater would do.

**truav8r** · 11-10-2015, 07:11 PM

National Grid here in upstate NY does stipulate that you can't produce more than 110% of what you consumed in the 12 months prior to the solar install. I believe many other POCOs have a similar stance. The idea being that you can't become your own utility.

**merc4** · 11-10-2015, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Sunking

They are not in biz to loose money. In your contract somewhere you signed and agreed to the terms. So if you are not keeping up your end of the Contract agreement, yes they can boot you off. Just like paying rent or car payments, fail to pay rent or make payments, you are in default, and out you go. That is what you agreed to.

Yes, he assured me that it was in the agreement somewhere**......But with all the riders and fees, I've paid $150 in the past year, even tho' I produced more than I used? So they're already profiting off me, just not enough to satisfy them? I just found and reread the interconnection agreement: It says netmetering is intended for those who will generate part, or ALL of their power needs via Solar, but not signicantly beyond what the residence uses. He's sending me additional paperwork to sign, and I suspect I'll see a change in that "language". Not that I can, or will refuse to sign it, but keep in mind, I made a sizeable investment in this system, and I also did NOT do it to lose money. When the advantages are gone, what happens to the future of solar?

** EDIT! It was NOT in the original agreement, they've since changed the rules, and sent me a new agreement to sign.

**J.P.M.** · 11-10-2015, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by merc4

Yes, he assured me that it was in the agreement somewhere. But with all the riders and fees, I've paid $150 in the past year, even tho' I produced more than I used? So they're already profiting off me, just not enough to satisfy them? I just found and reread the interconnection agreement: It says netmetering is intended for those who will generate part, or ALL of their power needs via Solar, but not signicantly beyond what the residence uses. He's sending me additional paperwork to sign, and I suspect I'll see a change in that "language". Not that I can, or will refuse to sign it, but keep in mind, I made a sizeable investment in this system, and I also did NOT do it to lose money. When the advantages are gone, what happens to the future of solar?

NOMB, but had you looked before you leaped, read or investigated what the rules were and sized the system correctly (not as oversized maybe ?), you would have perhaps saved some on initial cost and kept your tit out of the ringer with the POCO.

There's a lot to be said for doing some planning.

You can always downsize.

**merc4** · 11-10-2015, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by J.P.M.

NOMB, but had you looked before you leaped, read or investigated what the rules were and sized the system correctly (not as oversized maybe ?), you would have perhaps saved some on initial cost and kept your tit out of the ringer with the POCO.

There's a lot to be said for doing some planning.

You can always downsize.

I can produce all my power, but not significantly over.....what do you consider significant? 450kwh over a 12 month period? 5+% over is significant? a 5kw system is too big? Get serious. I sized the system perfectly, and installed it completely. The problem is, utilities are changing the rules as they go. No problem turning some electric heat back on, and my tit is not in the ringer. But using extra power when already paying in the winter, is just plain stupid. Gotta do what I gotta do, but still, it's self defeating for the solar industry.

**J.P.M.** · 11-10-2015, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by merc4

I can produce all my power, but not significantly over.....what do you consider significant? 450kwh over a 12 month period? 5+% over is significant? a 5kw system is too big? Get serious. I sized the system perfectly, and installed it completely. The problem is, utilities are changing the rules as they go. No problem turning some electric heat back on, and my tit is not in the ringer. But using extra power when already paying in the winter, is just plain stupid. Gotta do what I gotta do, but still, it's self defeating for the solar industry.

Doesn't matter what I think is significant, only maybe your POCO from what you write. Still NOMB, but I just reviewed all your posts. While it's not required to do so, usually some mention of annual usage comes up in the proper sizing of a PV system. And to reiterate, not necessary, but I couldn't find any mention of annual usage or estimated annual system production or any parameters like orientation, etc. that are usually part of discussions about production estimates. That's why I was ignorant of the fact that you sized your system perfectly. My bad, and my apologies for assuming you did not already have all that covered. As for getting serious, thank you for the advice. I'll try harder to get serious in any future posts to this thread, but since you seem to have the situation under control, I don't anticipate any further input from my end will be needed. Good luck with your dealings with your utility.

Hope it all works out.

Sorry I wasted your time. It won't happen again.

Best Regards,

**cebury** · 11-11-2015, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by merc4

Aep, in Ohio, just informed me that I've used 450 kwh LESS than I've produced in the past 12 month period, and says if I don't start using more, or producing less, they will discontinue my netmetering.

Apparently I didn't carefully read the netmetering agreement? It's only a 5kw system, but we've cut use as much as possible. But, they have so many riders and fees tacked on, I must overproduce to get the 0.00 bill that I've learned to love so much. (except for a few winter months) Is their position normal??? It's the first I'd heard of such a thing. The system has been running 1 1/2 years, but they're just now warning me.

Perhaps post your current net metering agreement and let's see how close they are following it? It mostly doesn't matter what is "normal" in other states, area, etc.

**merc4** · 11-11-2015, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by J.P.M.

Doesn't matter what I think is significant, only maybe your POCO from what you write. Still NOMB, but I just reviewed all your posts. While it's not required to do so, usually some mention of annual usage comes up in the proper sizing of a PV system. And to reiterate, not necessary, but I couldn't find any mention of annual usage or estimated annual system production or any parameters like orientation, etc. that are usually part of discussions about production estimates. That's why I was ignorant of the fact that you sized your system perfectly. My bad, and my apologies for assuming you did not already have all that covered. As for getting serious, thank you for the advice. I'll try harder to get serious in any future posts to this thread, but since you seem to have the situation under control, I don't anticipate any further input from my end will be needed. Good luck with your dealings with your utility.

Hope it all works out.

Sorry I wasted your time. It won't happen again.

Best Regards,

it's just frustrating to see how many states and Utilities are trying to demonize solar owners. This is a mere bump in the road compared to what we'll see in the future.

**sensij** · 11-11-2015, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by merc4

it's just frustrating to see how many states and Utilities are trying to demonize solar owners. This is a mere bump in the road compared to what we'll see in the future.

Paying $150 annually for access to the grid and get retail credit for the energy you produce = demonized?

**Living Large** · 11-11-2015, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by merc4

Aep, in Ohio, just informed me that I've used 450 kwh LESS than I've produced in the past 12 month period, and says if I don't start using more, or producing less, they will discontinue my netmetering.

Apparently I didn't carefully read the netmetering agreement? It's only a 5kw system, but we've cut use as much as possible. But, they have so many riders and fees tacked on, I must overproduce to get the 0.00 bill that I've learned to love so much. (except for a few winter months) Is their position normal??? It's the first I'd heard of such a thing. The system has been running 1 1/2 years, but they're just now warning me.

Think about the logic for a second. Why on Earth would the POCO provide service to your home, maintain an account for you, etc, for you to not use any electricity. That's plain

You can't be surprised by them complaining.

"Demonize"? You can't be serious. I used to have AEP stock, and if their customer base was made solely of users like you my stock would have become worthless.

**azdave** · 11-11-2015, 10:47 AM

I look at this this way. Solar for me was a safe (but not lucrative) financial investment. I purchased my system outright and plan to stay in this home until I die. The local utility offered grid-tie agreements to people going solar and I signed a legally binding agreement with them.

Less than three months later they announced they were going back on the deal and changing the contract to better benefit them. That's like buying a new car and then having the dealer call you three months later to tell you they just raised the purchase price and your loan will now have additional payments to make before it's yours!

In the end, all existing solar users were allowed to keep their contracts in place and we only have to pay the same rate increases as non-solar customers. I overproduced this year but my utility zeros out the account once a year and pays me wholesale rates for the excess. I'm okay with that. That what both sides agreed to in the contract.

**merc4** · 11-11-2015, 11:08 AM

http://www.energymanagertoday.com/th...solar-0117313/ You will note that AEP is one of the groups mentioned. But in the "demonizing" reference, I was talking mainly of the areas where they're already charging a monthly fee to be connected to the grid. A $50 per month grid fee, after spending thousands for a system, is a slap in the face. No, that is not in Ohio..... yet!

Utility Co. called me, I'm not using enough power?

Utility Co. called me, I'm not using enough power?

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