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  • Schneider MPPT Charger Question

    I am new to solar and in the beginning stages of planning an off-grid solar installation. I have read over the specs for the Schneider MPPT 60 150 and the MPPT 80 600 and besides the obvious higher input voltage and output current of the MPPT 80 600 and I failing to see why the MPPT 80 600 is more than twice as expensive as the MPT 60 150. Could someone educate me on the differences?

    Also the property we are looking at is at 8000ft. Is there anything special I need to take into consideration for the altitude (besides a lower temperature)?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Colorado is a fantastic site fr solar. With the clear skies and high intensity sun, you will be very happy. To handle 600V instead of 150V, the electronic components are more expensive. It's more like an inverter in some ways, handling the high voltage and converting it way down. If you have to travel a distance from the panels to the batteries, the amount you will save by going with smaller wire may be worth the extra cost. If you don't have a long distance, the 150 is fine.
    Solar Queen
    altE Store

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    • #3
      Amy,

      Thanks for the reply.

      What is considered a long distance?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
        I am new to solar and in the beginning stages of planning an off-grid solar installation. I have read over the specs for the Schneider MPPT 60 150 and the MPPT 80 600 and besides the obvious higher input voltage and output current of the MPPT 80 600 and I failing to see why the MPPT 80 600 is more than twice as expensive as the MPT 60 150. Could someone educate me on the differences?

        Also the property we are looking at is at 8000ft. Is there anything special I need to take into consideration for the altitude (besides a lower temperature)?

        Thanks.
        I looked at the specs for both of those and while there are differences I am not sure why the MPPT 80 costs so much more than the MPPT 60.

        Obvious differences:
        Charging current; 60 Amp - 80 Amp
        Max input volt; 150VDC - 600VDC
        Physical size; 14.8" x 5.8" x 5.5" - 30" x 8.6" x 8.6".
        Physical weight; 10.8 lb - 29.8 lb
        Max battery voltage; 60 volt - 48 volt

        I would guess that there is a lot more in the MPPT 80 then what I have listed but I couldn't say if that justified the higher cost.

        I will say that only having a max 150vdc input will require you to wire more parallel strings of panels which will also require larger wire between the panels and MPPT due to higher current. So the MPPT 80 is better in that respect.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
          Amy,

          Thanks for the reply.

          What is considered a long distance?
          That's subjective. Go to a voltage drop calculator to play around with some numbers. I like the one on calculator.net.
          Solar Queen
          altE Store

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ColoradoBound View Post
            What is considered a long distance?
            When you are forced to use a larger wire than NEC says is safe for the amount of current. Example a 1000 watt system with a 600 volt MPPT you can run say 5 x 200 wat panels in series which will have Vmp of roughly 200 volts @ 5 amps over say a distance of 100 feet one-way. Minimum NEC gauge is #14 AWG and with 5 amps you can go out to 150 feet one-way and limit voltage drop to 2%. (2% of 200 volts is 4 volts. So it will take 200 feet if #14 AWG copper and that cost you roughly 9-cents per foot or roughly $18 worth of wire.

            No let's say you are Moron. You want a 1000 watt system using 100 watt battery panels and wire them all in parallel so the current is 60 amps. NEC says you must use at least a #6 AWG wire. However 60 amps flowing 100 feet one-way and you loose 30% of your voltage and power at 18 volts of a battery panel. Will not even work. To get to the 2% or less voltage/power loss you would have to use 1000 MC cable. 1000 MCM cost your around $19/ft and 200 feet will cost you $3800 just for the cable that is about thee size of your upper arm. But that is not th eend of the cost. You now have to buy a very expensive combiner and over current protection devices, add another $1000. Then you will need to hire an Electricician to come around and terminate those $60 connectors using a 15 ton hydraulic press, and a couple of hours of labor. Almost forgot all the conduit and expense running 3000 pounds of copper will cost you another few thousand.

            So are you are Moron? You are talking about a $10,000 decision. Let the Morons use 12 volt battery panels in parallel, they deserve it and need to loose their hard earned money to learn a lesson.

            Short story keep panel currents to less than 10 to 20 amps and distance as short as possible. #12 AWG the minimum required for 20 amps is good up to 15 feet with 100 volts pushing it. That would be a 2000 watt system operating on 24 volt battery or higher system.
            MSEE, PE

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            • #7
              I am no moron and I do understand current and cable size. I was mainly wonder on the MPPT Chargers if there were other differences that I had not noticed.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                I looked at the specs for both of those and while there are differences I am not sure why the MPPT 80 costs so much more than the MPPT 60............
                It's the cost of the 600V input gear. Less mass production, higher price. And it's more difficult to produce 600V parts (have to test out to about 1200V) than 160V parts testing to 300V.
                Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                  It's the cost of the 600V input gear. Less mass production, higher price. And it's more difficult to produce 600V parts (have to test out to about 1200V) than 160V parts testing to 300V.
                  Oh I understand the difference between the low voltage and high voltage rated stuff. But even in the electrical component field a 600v rated safety switch is not twice the cost of a 300v rated safety switch.

                  It just seems the cost is a little more than I would figure unless there is something in the MPPT 80 that is way better then the MPPT 60 besides the charging amps and input voltage.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                    Oh I understand the difference between the low voltage and high voltage rated stuff. But even in the electrical component field a 600v rated safety switch is not twice the cost of a 300v rated safety switch....
                    But the cost of semiconductors with that difference in voltage rating, added to the difference in construction and amortizing the design cost over a smaller number of projected sales all contribute to making the cost differential larger than for a simple mechanical safety switch.
                    SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by inetdog View Post
                      But the cost of semiconductors with that difference in voltage rating, added to the difference in construction and amortizing the design cost over a smaller number of projected sales all contribute to making the cost differential larger than for a simple mechanical safety switch.
                      You are correct. The MPPT 80 weighs 3 times as much as the 60 so there certainly is a lot more than just a few items in that box that can just handle 600 vdc.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SunEagle View Post
                        You are correct. The MPPT 80 weighs 3 times as much as the 60 so there certainly is a lot more than just a few items in that box that can just handle 600 vdc.
                        That brings up the speculation that the 80 was old technology built like a battleship and costing accordingly while the 60 was a newer model built less expensively and aimed at a lower market price and power point than the 80.
                        SunnyBoy 3000 US, 18 BP Solar 175B panels.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well it turns out that I can't use the 80 in the location where the property will be because it has an altitude limitation of 6500ft and the property is at 8000ft.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thats likely just thermal derating, thinner air carries away less heat, no component is sensitive to altitude. If it's voltage flash-over because of less air, that's even less likely.
                            I'm pretty sure if you need it, contact the XW engineers and verify what the altitude power derate would be
                            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Their tech support person said it was due to thinner air having less resistance thus increasing the possibility of creepage. I would have thought that thinner air would have more resistance but I have not researched it. I'm OK with not using the 80-600 since the 60-150 are less than 1/2 the price and I am also looking at outback and they have an 80 amp version at 150 volts for 1/2 the price as well.

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