Addin the Sola rportion to my Off grid System

**Sunking** · 04-22-2014, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by giles117

Originally I was thinking a simple PWM (TS-60) system with 4 150w panels would suffice.

That would be a bad mistake and expensive.

Sounds like those 150 watt are battery panels which is mistake number 1. Battery panels are roughly twice as expensive as Grid Tied Panels.
Second mistake is using PWM controller. PWM controllers at best are only 66% efficient compared to 95 to 98% of a MPPT controller.

Once you get above 200 watts, a MPPT system is much less expensive. It takes a 300 watt PWM system to generate the same amount of power as a 200 watt MPPT system. Examples

PWM 300 Watt System Cost
3 x 100 Watt Battery Panels = $600
15 amp PWM Controller = $50
Total = $650

MPPT 200 Watt System Cost
1 x 200 watt Grid Tied panel = $200 to $300
15 amp MPPT Controller = $200
Total = $400 to $500

**giles117** · 04-22-2014, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Sunking

That would be a bad mistake and expensive.

Too late. I already purchased the PWM controller...

Thats money I cant take back...

SO I have to work around this "problem" and come up with a stop gap solution.

Which I think I may have found one. Buy a 72 cell panel. Of course I will have efficiency losses, but it will get us off gas and generator starting sometime next week.

Then, come July I can buy the MPPT controller.

**giles117** · 04-22-2014, 11:53 PM

Sunking, looking at your price comparison, whats missing is shipping costs.

Last I checked into large panels, you wind up paying high freight charges for 1 or 2 panels...

Has something in the industry changed?

**Sunking** · 04-22-2014, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by giles117

Which I think I may have found one. Buy a 72 cell panel.

What battery voltage are you talking about?

Reason I ask is if you use a 72 cell Grid Tied Panel with a PWM controller a 24 volt battery is your only option is 24 volt battery.

Never too late, I do not agree you cannot afford it. You cannot afford not to use MPPT. If you buy the 4-150 watt Battery panels will cost you more than buying a 2-200 Watt GTI panels plus a MPPT controller.

Take your losses and sell that PWM controller to a Sucker.

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Sunking

What battery voltage are you talking about?

Reason I ask is if you use a 72 cell Grid Tied Panel with a PWM controller a 24 volt battery is your only option is 24 volt battery.

We are CURRENTLY RUNNING a 12v system that I am waiting for my new 24v inverter to show up so I can rewire. It should be here by Thursday.

Originally posted by Sunking

Never too late, I do not agree you cannot afford it. You cannot afford not to use MPPT. If you buy the 4-150 watt Battery panels will cost you more than buying a 2-200 Watt GTI panels plus a MPPT controller.

Take your losses and sell that PWM controller to a Sucker.

It's too late as my wife and I have no more patience for hearing a generator running 6-8 hours per day.

Peace of mind is worth more to me at this time than waiting to save up to buy an MPPT Controller.

But I must backtrack.

You NEVER answered the question I asked....

Thanks...

**mschulz** · 04-23-2014, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by giles117

Any suggestions on an inexpensive, decent quality MPPT controller?

I think what you are asking is - Morning Star Sun Saver 15 AMP MPPT charge controller. 200Watts max on 12 volt and 400Watts on 24 volt. About $200. It is as cheap as you want to go. Just my $.02

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 12:24 AM

FOr giggles, I am listing a price comparison which directed me to the 12v panels

2 - 12v 150w panels shipped to my property, $365
1 - PWM Charge COntroller (TS-60) $150

Total shipped to door - $515

Last price I checked for the larger panels

1 - 280 Watt panel shipped to my property $500

IF, I drove down to the nearest dock (150 miles away) and picked the panel up I would save $100 in freight, but spend $100 in gas. (No savings there) My old ford is NOT fuel efficient and a 300 mile trip will cost me 28 gallons of gas.

1 - MPPT controller - Still to be determined.

A 15amp is too small for my needs and I would wind up in the same situation. Spending money twice. remember I said I need at least 1Kw to 1.5Kw of non battery power during the day. It will allow me to keep my battery bank fairly small.

Which puts me smack dab into the Tristar/Midnite solar grouping UNLESS someone knows of another inexpensive, but decent quality controller for a lower price point.

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 12:27 AM

Originally posted by mschulz

I think what you are asking is - Morning Star Sun Saver 15 AMP MPPT charge controller. 200Watts max on 12 volt and 400Watts on 24 volt. About $200. It is as cheap as you want to go. Just my $.02

Thanks.

I had checked and ruled that one out as it is too small for my INITIAL needs.

Arrgh!!!!

Price wise it was perfect, had it been a 30amp, it would have been stellar for me to start with.

**Shockah** · 04-23-2014, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by giles117

You NEVER answered the question I asked....

Thanks...

... and you are ENTITLED to that answer, aren't you?!

Originally posted by giles117

.....
Has something in the industry changed?

^^^ This question?

I'll answer it with 2 questions:
1. Where are you located?
2. Are there NO local Grid-Tie Suppliers near you?

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Shockah

... and you are ENTITLED to that answer, aren't you?!

IS this a welfare verses people who do real work dig??

I am not ENTITLED to anything, but I deserve to be respected and instead of being buried in inaccurate numerical rhetoric, My question could have JUST been answered...

Originally posted by Shockah

^^^ This question?

I'll answer it with 2 questions:
1. Where are you located?
2. Are there NO local Grid-Tie Suppliers near you?

1 - In the middle of nowhere in Alabama. POCO would charge me 40K to run power lines to me.

2 - No. The nearest freeway is 75 miles away from me, the nearest freight dock is 134 miles from me and the nearest grid tie supplier I KNOW OF is 310 miles away from me...

If I was in Atlanta I'd have 10 of these things already. But I don't, so I am trying to work within my budget.

Hell, I used to argue with UPS and FEDEX all the time and I have to drive some 8 miles to meet the drivers to get my packages because the nearest of either of those companies is over 86 miles away...

**Sunking** · 04-23-2014, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by giles117

FOr giggles, I am listing a price comparison which directed me to the 12v panels

2 - 12v 150w panels shipped to my property, $365
1 - PWM Charge COntroller (TS-60) $150

Total shipped to door - $515

Last price I checked for the larger panels

1 - 280 Watt panel shipped to my property $500

Then you are shopping at the wrong place. Grid Tied Panels are less than $1/watt

200 Watt GT Panel = $200
20 Amp Morningstar MPPT Controller = $200
Total = $400

That is why I said You cannot afford not to go with MPPT. You are throwing money away using battery panels and PWM.

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Sunking

Then you are shopping at the wrong place. Grid Tied Panels are less than $1/watt

That is why I said You cannot afford not to go with MPPT. You are throwing money away using battery panels and PWM.

Ok, I'll bite...

Where in Alabama that doesn't include Montgomery 215 miles away, Birmingham, 325 miles away or huntsville 365 miles away can I get grid tied panels??? Even in the panhandle of (Pensacola) florida (135 to 150 miles away) there aren't any "local" suppliers I am aware of.

Again, for me, the issue is SHIPPING COST..

Prices are all gravy until I check the SHIPPING costs and this great $400 system all of a sudden costs me $675.00

For that $400 to $500 you shared I can buy a 300 watt PWM system and have it delivered to my front gate.... SAVING ME $175 to $250 in shipping costs...

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 10:10 AM

So, for me, an "inexpensive" 250-300 watt grid tied panel would cost me $1.90/ watt delivered to my door

And an "expensive" 12v panel solution of SIMILAR output will cost me $1.15/ watt delivered to my door

And we still haven't worked out the CC issue. The ONLY CC I see in the 200 range outputs 15A. Too low for my battery needs.

Today I am 415Ah, in May I will be 815Ah. 15 Amps is a Joke...

If such a solution doesn't exist, let me know...

BTW, I called around AGAIN for the 3rd time and even though there is a NEW solar "company" down in P-Cola, They dont stock 60 or 72 cell panels. They get all of theirs shipped from ATL and only order Per Job....

There are NO LOCAL GTI suppliers. (and again, Pcola is 134+/- miles awa)

**giles117** · 04-23-2014, 10:33 AM

Ok, Morningstar makes an MPPT-30 Amp deal . That might do the trick for me. However, It's $200 more than I paid for the PWM unfortunately... $366 is the best price I've seen

ANything in the 200-300 price point???

Addin the Sola rportion to my Off grid System

Addin the Sola rportion to my Off grid System

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